Bully not moving

BorisThomson

Synergy83 wrote: »

keep following the chain up, and keep going until something is done.

also what happens if all 7 of you suddenly started to drop your performance due to the stress of it all, if you're all still working normally then they may think they don'tneed to do anything, maybe all of you could take a few days off sick with stress together

Poor performance and a poor attendance record is only going to go against the OP. None of us are irreplaceable, push the wrong way and it will be OP that is out the door.

lili2008

Thanks for the replies all.

To put this in context, I have worked for the team for 8 years and am the shortest-serving. Some of the others have been there over 20 years. When I joined, there was a different supervisor who was excellent and imparted his knowledge of the job generously. This is why we all perform well and the team managed continuity of staff.

That supervisor left and the current one came. In fact, there was a drop in performance then, with one woman even on long-term sick because of him. It was then that we asked for a change of supervisor and were told by HR that we'd have to put in a formal grievance for that to happen

As you know, we did, and it was upheld.

He was moved for the duration of the grievance, the team's performance went back up to its previous level under the temporary supervisor, but now the grievance has been outcomed, he's refusing to be moved and insisting on coming back to his old role.

I was aware that it's not an inevitable outcome that he be moved, or one they can insist on under the range of disciplinary actions available, but it strikes me as ridiculous not to. Especially as the implication from HR right at the outset was that he would be if the grievance was upheld.

The other option would be for all 7 of us to move to different offices but (a) we are the top performing team in our business area and work well together and (b) it rather goes against the principle of natural justice.

nicechap

lili2008 wrote: »

... It was then that we asked for a change of supervisor ...... put in a formal grievance......

As you know, we did, and it was upheld.

..... it rather goes against the principle of natural justice.

The grievance has been upheld and its for the organisation to decide how to deal with the consequences.

To be frank, you sound like you want to be judge and jury and now want revenge rather than justice.

sangie595

I'm afraid that natural justice is a much overstated thing - if it worked at all well, then many things wouldn't happen. Unfortunately, they do. But this is down to the employer to decide. If they accept that he doesn't move, then that is their decision. You then have to decide what you will do. If anything. Because unless the behaviour continues, it's been dealt with. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but that was never part of the deal.

lili2008

Synergy83 wrote: »

keep following the chain up, and keep going until something is done.

also what happens if all 7 of you suddenly started to drop your performance due to the stress of it all, if you're all still working normally then they may think they don'tneed to do anything, maybe all of you could take a few days off sick with stress together

No. It's a matter of professional pride for us all not to let that happen. It's blatantly obvious that nothing about our performance is because of anything he's done as a supervisor (see previous post). It's also blatantly obvious that if we did all leave and were replaced with a fresh batch of, effectively, trainees (you have to be trained in the job to do what we do even if you have transferable skills from a similar role) the current incumbent wouldn't have the skills to create a new team. Part of his bullying, for example, was making mistakes and blaming them on others. What he didn't know, or care to learn, was that this was very provable with an audit trail. Right to the end, when there was tangible evidence to disprove him, he was still trying to play the blame game. Someone like that isn't going to change.

lili2008

nicechap wrote: »

The grievance has been upheld and its for the organisation to decide how to deal with the consequences.

To be frank, you sound like you want to be judge and jury and now want revenge rather than justice.

What makes you say that?

lili2008

sangie595 wrote: »

I'm afraid that natural justice is a much overstated thing - if it worked at all well, then many things wouldn't happen. Unfortunately, they do. But this is down to the employer to decide. If they accept that he doesn't move, then that is their decision. You then have to decide what you will do. If anything. Because unless the behaviour continues, it's been dealt with. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but that was never part of the deal.

I know. However, knowing him as I do, the behaviour will continue. What then? Another grievance that goes round in the same circle?

stuartJo1989

I find it interesting how the shortest-serving person in the team has been there for 8 years!!

Does your company have much turnover from newer members? I have to say, but if there's a core team of people who have 8+ years then they will now be part of the furniture and that can sometimes breed bad habits/attitudes....

I wouldn't automatically rule out the possibility that ANY new manager (or even a new colleague on the same level) is going to have problems with you lot. Which begs the question, why aren't you or the other team putting your name in the ring for promotion if you feel that so strongly about the "principle of natural justice"? Surely you, or the more experienced employees, are a better fit? Or are you a bit too cushy in the job you do now? (may explain why there's so many people with 8+ years at the company)

And why aren't you seeking alternative employment if you don't like your manager/the decisions of HR?

I'll leave you with one last thing.... you said this "The other option would be for all 7 of us to move to different offices"

- NO!!!! That isn't the other option! The "other option" is for you to take care of your own job/wellbeing and not unduly worry about the problems of other people. The mere fact that you seem to think that the other option is ALL OF YOU moving makes it quite clear that you've got an us v him attitude about you which sort of links to the point I made about long-serving members above. You're more concerned about *winning* than you are about your own personal wellbeing.

As mentioned previously, the lack of newer members on the team is also a bit of a red flag for me....

lili2008

stuartJo1989 wrote: »

I find it interesting how the shortest-serving person in the team has been there for 8 years!!

Does your company have much turnover from newer members? I have to say, but if there's a core team of people who have 8+ years then they will now be part of the furniture and that can sometimes breed bad habits/attitudes....

I wouldn't automatically rule out the possibility that ANY new manager (or even a new colleague on the same level) is going to have problems with you lot. Which begs the question, why aren't you or the other team putting your name in the ring for promotion if you feel that so strongly about the "principle of natural justice"? Surely you, or the more experienced employees, are a better fit? Or are you a bit too cushy in the job you do now? (may explain why there's so many people with 8+ years at the company)

And why aren't you seeking alternative employment if you don't like your manager/the decisions of HR?

I'll leave you with one last thing.... you said this "The other option would be for all 7 of us to move to different offices"

- NO!!!! That isn't the other option! The "other option" is for you to take care of your own job/wellbeing and not unduly worry about the problems of other people. The mere fact that you seem to think that the other option is ALL OF YOU moving makes it quite clear that you've got an us v him attitude about you which sort of links to the point I made about long-serving members above. You're more concerned about *winning* than you are about your own personal wellbeing.

As mentioned previously, the lack of newer members on the team is also a bit of a red flag for me....

It's because it's very specialised, as I have said. And having been through the situation, I can confidently say that all of us will consider transfers if he comes back. This isn't winning, it's professional integrity.

Not sure how you have inferred we're a problem team. Or that I'm a bit too cushy etc. Bit of a leap.

nicechap

lili2008 wrote: »

What makes you say that?

Things like this where you've already pre-judged the outcome

lili2008 wrote: »

I know. However, knowing him as I do, the behaviour will continue. What then? Another grievance that goes round in the same circle?