Ebay/Paypal fraud?

jonnytheleyther

Hi,

Don't know who else to ask so hoping for some advice.

Basically I sold an expensive bike on ebay for £1300. Sent by Fedex and delivered by them.

Buyer claimed item not recieved and put in claim, which he lost. Then put in claim, item received but not as described, lost again. Then he went to his bank, who then sided with him.

Now my paypal account is £1300 in arrears and I haven't done a thing wrong, there is still investigations going on, what am I supposed to do?

soolin

jonnytheleyther wrote: »

Hi,

Don't know who else to ask so hoping for some advice.

Basically I sold an expensive bike on ebay for £1300. Sent by Fedex and delivered by them.

Buyer claimed item not recieved and put in claim, which he lost. Then put in claim, item received but not as described, lost again. Then he went to his bank, who then sided with him.

Now my paypal account is £1300 in arrears and I haven't done a thing wrong, there is still investigations going on, what am I supposed to do?

Firstly ask the Board guide on this board to move your post over to the ebay and others board ( see my signature)

Secondly don't panic, a claim for fraudulent use of a card is easily defended with proof of posting, or in the case of a courier, proof that it was booked and collected.

It is all covered here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3146680

I would suggest that get on the phone immediately to paypal and explain the position, tell them that you can upload proof item was sent to the address that they gave you and insist that you are invoking your seller protection. Make sure you upload proof of postage to the dispute and then keep phoning until they agree you are covered.

jonnytheleyther

Hi, thankyou for the reply. I've spoken to paypal again today. They have my proof of postage and have had for a while now. They said I'll have to wait and see what the ombudsmen and police come up with who i got involved.

Very, very worried that paypal, even though they openly admit if I have proof of postage I'm covered, don't seem willing to side with me.

Fosterdog

Surely proof of posting is no longer an issue as the buyer is claiming not as described, they can’t do that for an item not received. It’s a civil matter so you won’t get anywhere with the police, I’m surprised they have agreed to even investigate they usually quite rightly tell people there’s nothing they can do in this situation.

bris

The problem you have is the fact the bank have taken the money from Paypal. Paypal could fight it with the bank and win because banks trust their customer in the first instance then reverse it when the other side (Paypal) show proof that the reversal is wrong, but they probably won't fight it so they then pass it on to you.


You could argue that you have done nothing wrong and are therefor not liable to Paypal, which is true but you will lose your account with them.


When they come calling tell them the debt is in dispute and only a civil action can settle it, this is you asking for your day in court which will never come.


The debt letters you receive will continue for a while then eventually stop.

soolin

jonnytheleyther wrote: »

Hi, thankyou for the reply. I've spoken to paypal again today. They have my proof of postage and have had for a while now. They said I'll have to wait and see what the ombudsmen and police come up with who i got involved.

Very, very worried that paypal, even though they openly admit if I have proof of postage I'm covered, don't seem willing to side with me.

Get onto them again, that is nonsense, you need to tell them that you are invoking seller protection (read the thread I posted above). If paypal want to involve anyone else that's up to them, all you care about s your seller protection. Have they said that they 'accept' that what you have uploaded constitutes proof of posting?

Don't let them park this and ignore you, stick to the facts, tell them clearly what you want and what you expect them to do, don't let them sidetrack you.

Fosterdog wrote: »

Surely proof of posting is no longer an issue as the buyer is claiming not as described, they can’t do that for an item not received. It’s a civil matter so you won’t get anywhere with the police, I’m surprised they have agreed to even investigate they usually quite rightly tell people there’s nothing they can do in this situation.

Unless I've read it wrong the seller has already lost the INR and SNAD claim and is now claiming fraudulent use of a card or bank account, which is an entirely different claim and one done through the bank as a chargeback. That's why understanding the difference and providing the correct evidence is so important.

The police and any other body are of no consequence for the paypal claim, that is a matter of terms and conditions, and OP needs to ensure they use the correct terminology to remind paypal of their own requirements. What will normally happen is that seller will be told the case is closed at no cost to them (if I can find my last completed similar case I'll post up the wording) but that paypal have covered the payment back to the bank themselves.

soolin

bris wrote: »

The problem you have is the fact the bank have taken the money from Paypal. Paypal could fight it with the bank and win because banks trust their customer in the first instance then reverse it when the other side (Paypal) show proof that the reversal is wrong, but they probably won't fight it so they then pass it on to you.


You could argue that you have done nothing wrong and are therefor not liable to Paypal, which is true but you will lose your account with them.


When they come calling tell them the debt is in dispute and only a civil action can settle it, this is you asking for your day in court which will never come.


The debt letters you receive will continue for a while then eventually stop.

To answer the bit in red, OP won't lose their paypal account, they are invoking properly their seller protection as per paypal rules. The person likely to lose their account is the dodgy buyer.

theonlywayisup

The claim must either be for INR or "unauthorised chargeback" i.e. a misuse of the card. Paypal don't have chargebacks for SNAD.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_GB#011

Read section 11 then when you feel armed, go back to Paypal and tell them your sale is covered under their Seller Protection.

jonnytheleyther

Paypal have said that this may end with a debt collection agency stepping in.

The buyer said originally the item wasn't delivered. Fedex investigated and said the driver did nothing wrong.

Then the buyer opened a seperate case saying the bike delivered wasn't the right one.

There was some really dodgy contact between myself and the buyer. He's a ropey character.

Warwick_Hunt

Fosterdog wrote: »

Surely proof of posting is no longer an issue as the buyer is claiming not as described, they can’t do that for an item not received. It’s a civil matter so you won’t get anywhere with the police, I’m surprised they have agreed to even investigate they usually quite rightly tell people there’s nothing they can do in this situation.

Sounds like fraud given the multiple attempts to have the payment recalled.

Warwick_Hunt

jonnytheleyther wrote: »

Paypal have said that this may end with a debt collection agency stepping in.

The buyer said originally the item wasn't delivered. Fedex investigated and said the driver did nothing wrong.

Then the buyer opened a seperate case saying the bike delivered wasn't the right one.

There was some really dodgy contact between myself and the buyer. He's a ropey character.

Surely he'd want to return the bike if you sent the wrong one.