SEN child not responsible for their actions

zagfles

Dark_Star wrote: »

Has anyone actually thought about how the SEN child & it's parents feel about all this?
They may not have had a choice over the school; or have been denied a "special" school if the SEN were considered manageable in a mainstream school.
They are probably more than aware of what their child does & are powerless to stop them (short of volunteering in a classroom all day).
I do disagree with the "no reprimanding" as all children no matter what age/IQ can comprehend the word NO & I wonder if the info over this has been miscommunicated.
The parents are probably being ignored at the school gate & only too aware of the mutterings of being THAT child's parents.
Some SEN's are not obvious & it could be - possibly - some sort of developmental delay e.g. child is 6 but mentally assessed as 3 or 4 - that's still in prime toddler biting time for SOME children & no, they don't ALL know that it's wrong to bite/hit/whatever ....no idea if this is the case but without knowing the SEN condition then I don't think anyone can judge.
I also doubt that poor child is getting invited on any playdates. Well unless it's invited over to tea how ARE you going to get to know them? (can always invite their parent(s) too - bet they'd love a chance to get to know other parents & put their side forward).
I fully expect to be shot down in flames for the mere suggestion of thinking about the child & it's parents but put yourselves in their shoes ....new school, new area, no friends - that can upset the average child let alone one that may not cope well with change on top of whatever SEN they have.

Go on - be nice - it's half term - invite them over...have courage & be kind.

So how many friends have you got who are violently mentally ill? If none, perhaps you should pay a visit to your local secure mental hospital and suggest taking one of them out for a drink and befriending them, I'm sure they're feeling lonely and isolated.

Perhaps you could see what it's like to interact with someone your size who you know could punch you in the stomach, poke you in the eye, or bite you at any time. Let us know how you get on. Perhaps, like my friend's daughter, you'll start wetting the bed and turn from a happy lively person into a quiet withdrawn person scared of their own shadow.

Once you've done that, you can come back and lecture the OP about how important it is to put up with violence so that someone else doesn't feel isolated or lonely.

Pyxis

zagfles wrote: »

So how many friends have you got who are violently mentally ill? If none, perhaps you should pay a visit to your local secure mental hospital and suggest taking one of them out for a drink and befriending them, I'm sure they're feeling lonely and isolated.

Perhaps you could see what it's like to interact with someone your size who you know could punch you in the stomach, poke you in the eye, or bite you at any time. Let us know how you get on. Perhaps, like my friend's daughter, you'll start wetting the bed and turn from a happy lively person into a quiet withdrawn person scared of their own shadow.

Once you've done that, you can come back and lecture the OP about how important it is to put up with violence so that someone else doesn't feel isolated or lonely.

I didn't get the impression that Dark Star was suggesting that anyone should put up with violence.

My impression of their post was that they reminded us that behind a lot of SEN children is at least one parent who is acutely aware of the disruption their child is making to a class, and who might be desperately unhappy about it, and seeking help, but the help afforded is to put their child into this situation.

Also, that because of it, they might be feeling 'accused', sidelined and isolated, and despite their wanting the situation to be different, might be in the position of not knowing where to turn.

I think that Dark Star was simply suggesting that getting to know the parent(s) and what the 'special educational need' is, that the child has, might be helpful for everyone.

I can only imagine what it must be like to have a child like that, and having to cope and deal with it every minute of the day, but even just imagining it is horrifying.


As others have said on this thread, without knowing what the SENeed actually is, it is difficult to make any valued judgements. Finding out all the information is the best way forward, and that could include getting to know the parents.

:A :A

zagfles

Pyxis wrote: »

I didn't get the impression that Dark Star was suggesting that anyone should put up with violence.

Err, the OP stated right at the start of this thread that their child had been a victim of violence. And the suggestion above is that the OP should invite the perpetrator of that violence around for tea!

My impression of their post was that they reminded us that behind a lot of SEN children is at least one parent who is acutely aware of the disruption their child is making to a class, and who might be desperately unhappy about it, and seeking help, but the help afforded is to put their child into this situation

No doubt. And I'm sure violent mentally ill adults and their parents/relatives feel the same. So invite them round for tea too. Otherwise it's hypocritical beyond belief to suggest someone should expect their child to befriend a violent person their size.

Also, that because of it, they might be feeling 'accused', sidelined and isolated, and despite their wanting the situation to be different, might be in the position of not knowing where to turn.

I think that Dark Star was simply suggesting that getting to know the parent(s) and what the 'special educational need' is, that the child has, might be helpful for everyone.

I can only imagine what it must be like to have a child like that, and having to cope and deal with it every minute of the day, but even just imagining it is horrifying.


As others have said on this thread, without knowing what the SENeed actually is, it is difficult to make any valued judgements. Finding out all the information is the best way forward, and that could include getting to know the parents.

:A :A

It's not a case of judging anyone. It's a case of protecting children from violence. If another child had a dangerous contagious disease, it's not their fault, they're not to blame, nor are their parents, but they need to be kept isolated to prevent harm to others until they are no longer a danger.

Yet here it seems perfectly acceptable for a whole class of children to be put at risk of violence to prevent one child feeling sidelined. And not only that, they should have to put up with it outside of school as well apparently.

I'll start listening to this sort of sanctimonious preaching when someone tells me how they've befriended violent adults and have put up with violence from them yet remained friends.

seven-day-weekend

Whilst I can see what Dark Star is saying, and applaud the sentiment, that has to be balanced by keeping other children safe.

I do not think it inappropriate to explain to the other children that child X is poorly and can't help doing what they do. However that is still no reason for them to be punchbags - you can't expect 6-year-olds to put themselves in that position.

tibawo

zagfles wrote: »

Yet here it seems perfectly acceptable for a whole class of children to be put at risk of violence to prevent one child feeling sidelined. And not only that, they should have to put up with it outside of school as well apparently.

.

Totally agree with this. If it was a non SEN child how would the school deal with it?

bylromarha

I assume this school is still under the control of the county council? Not an academy trust? Certainly for my school (still in council control) we are directed to take children. My class of year 2s are at 33.

We often get children who are excluded from other schools and have to take them. These kids have often been excluded from several schools due to their behaviour. SEN, G&T, rich, poor, we don't get a say in refusing any child county tells us we must take. Academies do.

My point is that your school may have known that this child would cause issues when accepting them on roll, knew they didn't have provision for them, but had to take them anyway. By formally complaining, you will be either a) giving the school evidence to contribute to their funding application for them OR b) contributing to their evidence bank to exclude this child.

FWIW, our school would deal with a child like this very well if they joined us. Mainstream schools can get it right, you need a commitment from all the staff to support SEN kids well, but not at the expense of the safety of others. And a head teacher who likes to sleep at night knowing that all his kids, SEN & non, have enjoyed their day at school. He, and our staff, have had a few bruises on the way, but I'd like to think we're making a significant difference in all the young lives we work with. Teaching is about more than academic subjects.

dekaspace

Can't give advice on the situation but it has always happened, no matter adults or kids will find a reason to justifiy aggression and bullying, when I was at primary school I had a kid with learning difficulties break my hand with steel capped shoes and not only did school not punish them they told me I must of provoked him, over a decade later I met him in a bar and handed him £40 (meant to be £20 but accidently had 2 notes stuck together) telling him to buy us both a pint and give me change, he came back with one drink for himself and gave me no change claiming I only gave him £5, he knew I was a soft touch (im autistic) and thus could get away with it.


Point there is I agree, he was agressive and a bully as a kid and the same as a adult but got away with things, and never learned actions have consequences.


And seen enough people like that over the years who justify agression with something.

Comms69

Tygermoth wrote: »

Sorry, it is worth thinking about - to assign a gender based on aggressive behaviour.

The OP was very careful to not mention a gender.

Men account for 80% of arrests for violent crime.....


It's quite logical to attach a gender to a behaviour.