Dart Charge - taking your money after 1 year

Mistyfly

So I rarely use the Dartford bridge - in fact it's been 15 months since the last time I had to - but (at least I thought) I had a positive balance of £5 on there - because of an accidental overpayment (mix up between the wife and I) which they refused to repay me.

However I then went and used it a month ago, only to be fined for non-payment of my bridge toll. But I understood I had this £5 positive balance to clear off.

I then go to their website to find out information, and see they've now started clearing positive balances off people's accounts if they're over 12 months old - and the company takes it straight into profit, because of this 'no refunds' policy.

My question is, is that legal?

Think about it - they're holding your money on account for when you do next cross, even if you don't live anywhere near the bridge and rarely have to go over it... but if it's not within 12 months they just steal it - and they completely refuse doing refunds... and to boot, they then slap you with a fine, because the money you thought was there has been stolen, by them!

How on earth can this be legal/ethical ???

Thoughts...

BeenThroughItAll

There is a cost to running all those computers, software systems, and staff - so your £5 doesn't go straight to profit, as at least some of it will be used to cover the overheads of the business, which remain exactly the same (aside from maintenance due to usage) whether you choose to cross the bridge or not.

redux

From the terms and conditions:

10.Inactive Accounts

If you do not use your Account for a period of more than 12 consecutive months then we will write to you to inform you of your non-use (the Non-use Letter) and if you do not recommence using the Account within 30 days of the date of the Non-use Letter, we may close your Account and cancel any Tag linked to your Account.

That doesn't seem to specify what happens to any balance on the account.

Did you receive such a letter?

Interesting that the word Tag appears. That might suggest the terms are a bit out of date. In fact the word Tag appears 96 times in the whole document.

I'd appeal this to somewhere, but I don't know where

But it's warned me about bothering with an account. I've crossed once under the current scheme, so I'd have lost out as well if I'd chucked in £10 a while ago. So much for them suggesting prepaid is cheaper, without warning part of it can be lost.

redux

I just had a phone chat with them, said I was interested in having an account, but was concerned about something I'd just read.

The terms and conditions are up to date. People can have a tag if they wish.

I said what happens if someone doesn't use the account for a while, what happens to the balance. He denied that the balance is lost, and people can have a refund if they want.

I'd definitely explore this further if I were you.

I think the next time I'm likely to use it, I'll try to see if it's possible to set up an account, but still pay per crossing without a lump sum top-up in advance. Probably not.

Mistyfly

No I don't have an 'account' with them, I had pre-paid on a specific car licence plate - hence they wouldn't/didn't write to me... however they had my email address, yet chose not to email me. After 12 months it seems they take the money on that if you've not used it.

In respect to the comment about them having overheads to pay - Let's face it, that's not the reason they just take your money if it's been there for 12 months inactive. Enough cars and trucks through that area each day to make a tidy profit... So the logic behind this is to maximise profit making opportunities... and consider this point - I had a positive balance... without my consent or knowledge they took it... and now fined me BECAUSE they took my positive balance away from me... If they hadn't taken it away, I wouldn't have received a fine! So they're not making more money!

Apodemus

I feel for you, I really do. I find the whole concept of having randomly charged pieces of road, with poor information signage annoying.

However, I cross at Dartford once a year and despite living about 800 miles away, I was aware that an advance payment was only valid for a year. I don’t think you will get anywhere arguing against that. It’s not so much them taking your money as you not using the service within the agreed time. It would probably be the same if you bought an advance fare ticket for travel or a store voucher - use it or lose it.

Misc2017

Marston (Holdings) Ltd (based in Epping) arrived at doorstep and intimidated my partner in my absence into paying £425 by debit card regarding an outstanding dart charge. They say correspondence was ignored. None has been received. They did not provided proof of previous correspondence or PCN number or crossing dates this fine of £425 relates to. Is this in fact legal to tell another they have to pay on behalf of the person who the supposed fine relates to? I have an account for Dartcharge with two vehicles registered and all crossings listed appear as paid. Anyone heard of such a situation using such awful methods with no proof. Seem to be getting away with this as appointed by Government to collect on behalf. Is there any way possible to appeal this? Why is more effort not spent by the Government pursuing illegal criminals who avoid this charge?

NonGeographicalMan

The best way for occasional users of the Dart crossing to avoid all this nonsense in future with the bovver buy tactics of the henchmen of the French Autoroute tolls operator (including stealing any toll credit left on your account with them if left unused for more than 13 months) is to sign up for free with https://www.dartsave.co.uk

That way you can't forget paying the toll, they keep reminding you to pay at the £2.50 rate for several weeks and the only penalty will impose for still ignoring those reminders is a £10 fee.

Of course for those travelling more regularly you are probably better off setting up an account with the official crossing operator to get the current 33% but soon to be only 25% prepay discount on the toll. Also those travelling regularly don't have to worry about their account being frozen and money stolen after 12 months due to inactivity.............

foxy-stoat

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

There is a cost to running all those computers, software systems, and staff - so your £5 doesn't go straight to profit, as at least some of it will be used to cover the overheads of the business, which remain exactly the same (aside from maintenance due to usage) whether you choose to cross the bridge or not.

Surely that cost is small compared to 10 staff manning the toll booths 24 hours a day 365 days a year, maintenance of the barriers, then paying for a security company to collect 500,000+ pound coins and paying them into a bank.

NonGeographicalMan

foxy-stoat wrote: »

Surely that cost is small compared to 10 staff manning the toll booths 24 hours a day 365 days a year, maintenance of the barriers, then paying for a security company to collect 500,000+ pound coins and paying them into a bank.

And the cost of the computers is very, very small indeed compared to the massive extra revenues now generated from unfairly penalising (with either £35, £70, £105 or much, much larger bailiff and court cost related costs for forgetting to pay the charge on the day due to their stupid system that now makes this possible) all the irregular users of the crossing who get caught in the jaws of the vicious and unreasonable system now operated by the Highways Agency and their French Toll road subcontractor.

And the question also remains as to why 4 or so pay on the ground lanes were not initially maintained to allow non regular users of the route not to accidentally miss paying the toll. As long as the discounts for paying automatically were large enough then anyone regular using the bridge was clearly still going to change to that system of payment.

Also totally unfair is that if you come across the bridge out of the blue for the first time you can't even pay that first toll retrospectively at the 33% discounted rate given to anyone who puts £10 at a time on to an auto pre payment and auto pre payment topup method by initially credit card and then via direct debit. Also wrong is that you cannot set up a pay as you go account with Dart itself to pay the toll that is paid by direct debit rather than by credit or debit card. All credit and debit cards are unsatisfactory since they are renewed periodically (or when lost or stolen or damaged) and when that happens the automatic pay as you go method will then fail (which they won't even tell you about even though they do have your number plate and contact details) so allowing the ripoff operator to start profiteering with £35/£70/£105 charges depending how soon you respond to their envelopes and and pay their extortionate demand.

So anyone using the crossing only infrequently should set up a free account at https://www.dartsave.co.uk to stop this from happening.:money:

giraffe69

I cross the bridge/use the tunnel rarely. Last time I did it I paid online with no aggravation at all and got an emailed receipt. I appreciate it is different if you do it regularly but why set up an account if you are going to use it once a year? That doesn't mean it is right for them to take money (TfL don't, for example) but it does seem to be having a fight for no gain.