CEL Claim Defence - Almost ready to submit I think

Redx

top of this parking fine forum , second thread down that says NEWBIES BLAH BLAH and has 5 posts in it

there are about 4 threads that are "stuck" up there

Coupon-mad

Trihed wrote: »

Apologies a newbie and being trying to get to the sticky threads to read, failed and need help if someone could direct me.
Thanks

The route to page one (just one click off any thread) is in my signature under every post I make. Easy.

ixworth

Just received the Particulars of Claim for my CEL case which was issued on 10th October 17. They're either playing games, or particularly inept (probably both infuses).

a) The PoC is dated 11th October but the letter has a postmark of 27th October. I didn't therefore receive it until 18 days after the claim. Outside of the 14 days I had to respond in. Is this allowed? In fact are they allowed to issue the PoC after submitting their initial claim?
b) The PoC is signed by Ashley Cohen. I thought there were restrictions applied to him. Am I correct, or is this over now?
c) The PoC is 2 pages of widely spaced text with the usual reference to Beavis and another reference to Vine Vs Waltham Forest Borough Council. Is this case relevant. Does it need defending.
d) Isn't such a cursory PoC at variance with the procedural guidelines CEL have to comply with now? I assume a judge will recognise this failing were it to get as far as court.
e) Scant as the PoC detailscare, I can see now that allowed free parking period was exceeded by under 12 minutes. Had I been furnished with this information in the initial MCOL I would have included something about grace periods in my defence (is 12 minutes within a reasonable Grace Period?). Can I do raise this now or do I have to wait for the Witness Statement?

I can see now some guidance on other posts that I shouldn't have filed a defence until receiving the full PoC. Have I burned my bridges by acting promptly?

Notwithstanding the above, I guess I now wait for DQ? Anything else I need to do in the meantime.

Thanks as usual to all of you.

Ixworth

Loadsofchildren123

I think you should telephone the court on Monday and explain that as you are a LiP you hadn’t understood the rules and shouldn’t have filed a defence, and your defence doesn’t deal with certain aspects of the claim.
An AoS/ form of defence should NOT have been served with the original claim form, were they? If so point this out, it was very misleading. I’ve just started a general CEL thread which shows you what the relevant rules are.

Ask the court to discard your defence and say you’ll be filing another replacement within the 14 days of service. If they agree to this, write to confirm, and tell CEL.

You could as an alternative require CEL to apply for relief on the basis their PoC were out of time but I think this would be weak given you have filed a defence.

If you take the first option you may find the court tells you to apply to amend your defence. The fee for a paper application is £100 and you’d recover it if you won.

Whether or not you bother doing that I’m not sure. Surely you have the best defence, that you can prove you weren’t driving and they didn’t comply with POFA so you can’t be liable as RK? Amending only adds the grace period argument and I’m not sure there’s any point given you already have a great defence.

Ixworth_2

Just to clarify, do I get a chance to raise new defence points in the Witness Statement where they relate to things raised in a late submitted PoC?

As for the defence I submitted, I think it stands strong as it is and will leave it alone. I'll be interested to see how CEL progress this huge raft of claims they've recently submitted, all of which seem to have had the same late PoC tactic from the posts in here.
You'd think the courts would look less than favourably on claimants playing fast and loose with their rules.

Seawalker

c) The PoC is 2 pages of widely spaced text with the usual reference to Beavis and another reference to Vine Vs Waltham Forest Borough Council. Is this case relevant. Does it need defending.

This seems to be more relevant to the defendants case not the claimants. I assume that is a mistake by CEL. I've got the same POC and I imagine the 1000's of others do to. I look forward to LoadsofChildren post tomorrow for the letter to the court regarding late POC but hopefully LOC or others can follow up with defence to the POC that CEL have issued dated "11" October.

Loadsofchildren123

Did you receive the AoS form and the Defence form with the first Claim Form?
Or did you receive these documents with the later PoC?
It’s quite important.

Loadsofchildren123

Ixworth wrote: »

Just to clarify, do I get a chance to raise new defence points in the Witness Statement where they relate to things raised in a late submitted PoC?


You'd think the courts would look less than favourably on claimants playing fast and loose with their rules.

1. Technically no. But the PPCs get away with it all the time. If you argue that they breached the rules and, in particular, that they misled you by serving the Aos/defence forms with the original claim when they should not have, then as a LiP you MAY get away with it.

2. You’d think so, but they don’t seem to care very much! Some judges will disregard it, others will come down on it like a tonne of bricks. The point is that these are seasoned litigants pursuing hundreds/thousands of small claims each year who have no excuse not to know and follow the rules. On the other side of the coin, in a small claim the court has less time to get hung up on rules, they just want to make a ruling on the actual claim.

rglfc

LoadsofChildren123 - I have received a Claim form from CEL dated 9th October, received approximately 28th Oct and I have today received the PoC dated 11th Oct, date stamped 27th Oct.

Is this something I can use in my defence?

Redx

rglfc wrote: »

LoadsofChildren123 - I have received a Claim form from CEL dated 9th October, received approximately 28th Oct and I have today received the PoC dated 11th Oct, date stamped 27th Oct.

Is this something I can use in my defence?

post that info in YOUR OWN thread that you posted and hopefully LOC123 will comment about it in your own thread