Section 75 credit card refund

PeacefulWaters

ocal resolution has not been tried

It doesn't have to be tried.

brook2jack

PeacefulWaters wrote: »

It doesn't have to be tried.

In general no it doesn't but as poor treatment or treatment not carried out has to be proved and poor treatment needs an expert report which will cost far in excess of the original claim to be proven local resolution is cheaper,quicker particularly if the dentist disputes the claim.

Expert opinions are very costly and the claimant normally has to pay this cost upfront

chattychappy

I've never had NHS dental treatment. But can somebody confirm that when you pay for your NHS dental work, there is some kind of contractual relationship going on and that the party you are paying (NHS? Dentist?) is the party contracted to treat you....

Just checking...

brook2jack

Actually the contract for treatment has nothing to do with the payment. When you sign a fp17 form the dentist is contracted to treat you to all necessary dental treatment to secure dental health that you are willing to undergo on the NHS. Most dentists do not receive direct payments from patients.

Most often the payment is not made to the dentist but is made to the dental practice , they then pay the rest to the dentist after deductions are made for expenses etc typically 30 to 50% is paid to the dentist after deductions .As 84 % of dentists do not own their own practice it is quite likely the credit card payment was made to the practice, not the dentist and again section 75 refunds do not apply here as the money has to be paid direct to the practitioner.

The dental practice does not employ dentists , it effectively rents out surgeries,equipment and staff, the dentists are self employed contractors . The practice has no obligation to a patient it is the individual dentist who treated who has.

chattychappy

As you probably guessed, I asked the question because a S75 claim could fail on these grounds alone.

brook2jack wrote: »

Most often the payment is not made to the dentist but is made to the dental practice , they then pay the rest to the dentist after deductions are made for expenses etc typically 30 to 50% is paid to the dentist after deductions .As 84 % of dentists do not own their own practice it is quite likely the credit card payment was made to the practice, not the dentist and again section 75 refunds do not apply here as the money has to be paid direct to the practitioner.

(emphasis added)

Of course, S75 doesn't stipulate requirements in these terms. If I pay a service provider by CC and the service is delivered to me by way of self-employed contractors that they engage, that doesn't prevent a S75 claim.

brook2jack wrote: »

The dental practice does not employ dentists , it effectively rents out surgeries,equipment and staff, the dentists are self employed contractors . The practice has no obligation to a patient it is the individual dentist who treated who has.

(emphasis added)

The last sentence might be correct, but not because of the sentence that proceeds it. Again, many businesses might structure themselves this way - but if the business enters into a contract and takes the money, then they are on the hook - unless it's agreed otherwise. (Eg a contract signed with the practitioner whereby the payment is processed by the business as agent.) Certainly in the case I mentioned earlier - where treatment was private, the practice took the money and signed a contract with my friend. I don't care how their orthodontist was employed - we were going after the practice in terms of a refund.

But, I agree with the gist of what you say and having looked up the FP17 which I assume the OP signed, my conclusion is that the OP is NOT covered under S75.

The OP obtained NHS dental care. It was the NHS that provided the treatment via the local dentist. If there is any contract, it is with the NHS. The wording of the declaration on FP17 supports this: "examine me under the NHS", ""I agree to pay the statutory charges for the NHS dental service I receive" etc. etc.

However, the OP did not pay the NHS directly. The OP paid the practice who are in some sort of agent capacity in taking the money. For this reason, the S75 debtor-creditor-supplier link is broken, so no S75.

(Obviously the dentist has a duty of care to the patient - so there may be a negligence claim against him or her. But even if the practice was a one man band, and the OP paid the dentist directly, S75 wouldn't help because it is restricted to breach of contract/misrepresentation, not claims in negligence or tort generally.)

brook2jack

NHS Dental services are very complex. The NHS has a contract with the provider, ie the practice owners , to supply a certain amount of NHS dental treatment. They agree to pay so much for this , including patient contributions. The practice, in effect , acts as a tax collector for the NHS. If eg they do more NHS work than contracted for not only do they not get paid but they have to refund any patient contributions made. In some circumstances the patient contribution can be more than the practice receives for the work.

The practice then contracts with performers (self employed dentists) to provide a set amount of NHS work, these performer dentists also have a separate contract with the NHS to do this portion of the providers contract.

However the NHS and the practice owners are not responsible for the clinical work done by the provider dentists. The sole responsibility for clinical work lies with the provider dentists. This concept has been legally tested quite a few times.

This confuses many people who have problems with Dental work because they assume the practice must put it right. In reality it is dentist who placed the work who is legally responsible and this can cause problems when eg dentists from abroad return home .

In reality most Dental practices will want to sort out problems to keep their reputation which is why contacting the practice direct is far more likely to result in a resolution.

chattychappy

brook2jack wrote: »

The sole responsibility for clinical work lies with the provider dentists. This concept has been legally tested quite a few times.

This confuses many people who have problems with Dental work because they assume the practice must put it right. In reality it is dentist who placed the work who is legally responsible and this can cause problems when eg dentists from abroad return home .

This is certainly true of negligence claims (ie "in tort"). But under contract law, it would depend on how the contract is constructed - so it would be case by case. The probably confuses people too. It would be quite possible for a private practice to contract with a patient as in my friend's case and be on the hook. But for NHS work where you pay, any contract that does exist is not with the practice, in my opinion.