Benefits to be replaced by loans!

Mersey_2

trigger_fish wrote: »

You are a fraud pal.

Office for national statistics says extrapolated benefit fraud is 0.7%.

Yes, extrapolated..

That really did amuse me. There's no reason you should know this, but I'm a solicitor and counter fraud practitioner, so here's the actual latest figures just for you [although they are publically available on gov.uk]


2016/17


JSA fraud 4.7% (highest ever recorded) £100m


HB fraud 4.6% (highest ever recorded) £900m


Carer's Allowance fraud 3.9% £40m


UC fraud 2.5% £40m


Pension credit fraud 2.3% £40m


ESA fraud 2.2% (highest ever recorded) £8 Bn


There are 16 other areas with fraud figures covering everything from NHS fraud, State pension fraud to immigration fraud.


Frankly, I'm surprised you're surprised. Just look at the £1.5 Billion in insurance fraud (covering whiplash and holiday sickness) or how many people tried to claim that smudged Lottery ticket.


Incidentally, I'm not singling out claimants - my point earlier was that there has been an increase in fraud across the board and a decline in standards. It now sadly appears the new norm that 3% of claims are fraudulent. After all, 6 ex-MPs, 2 Peers and 12 Cllrs were jailed for expenses fraud and last year 128 professionals including dentists, doctors and solicitors were all jailed for fraud offences.

annandale

They are looking into a trial of universal basic income in Scotland.

Re poverty and housing shortages, it depends very much where you live I suppose. My mum was a teacher for over forty years and in one of the last schools she taught in, one in my home town she was shocked at the obvious poverty. The way that children were being sent to school. She's been teaching a long time and in some poor areas but the condition of some of those kids (clothes and shoes) concerned her.

There's a baby bank in my area and other areas of Scotland. It provides support to families in crisis. It's helped around 8000 families in the last 12 months.

Re housing in my area. My local council did very little house building over the last 20 years or so. Little to replace homes that had been sold off under right to buy

I'm in a flat in a hard to let area or I wouldn't have got a council flat at all. There are voids but they aren't enough for everyone on the waiting lists.

There are 150k people on council house waiting lists in Scotland. The Scottish government have built more houses than the rest of the UK put together but they are still playing catch up from a long period of very little investment in housing.

There are few one bedroom apartments in my area. The council area I live in covers several towns and all the one bedroom flats and houses tend to be earmarked for older people.

annandale

With regard to other benefits you get apart from your uc money or jsa, of course. But prescriptions are free in Scotland to everyone. I can't remember the last time I got a prescription. Probably two in about 15 years.

Everyone in Scotland who has a child in p1-p3 is eligible for a free school meal for their child.

And yes. Council tax reduction and rent reduction. But obviously there has to be some element of that as you are on a low income. I won't be claiming housing element much longer.

I'm actually paying more council tax than I would be on jsa because the benefits team add your rent element and personal element together and count it as income for benefit purposes.

Yes it's meant to be a short term measure but running a home on 321 pounds a month is tough. It's been tougher over the last six months because I've been paying an advance back. I've been paying 41 pounds a month back.

I am fortunate that I am friends with a girl who is a bus driver and who can get me cheap travel. Not all year round as once you get cheap tickets there's a waiting period before you can get it again. She's been able to get me a bus ticket for 6 pounds a week instead of 17 or I pretty much wouldn't be using public transport at all

The problem is is that it can end up being not a short term measure. It's been 8 months for me now.

annandale

The biggest problem for me personally has been the fact that I get no in work allowance as I don't have kids. I was working zero hours for a few months and I'll probably go back to that but an in work allowance would have made a massive difference to me. When the taper is applied as soon as you earn a pound and you have travel to take into account you are better off but it can be by 8-10 pounds a shift. Some of these shifts I was travelling hundreds of miles to get to (no pay for travel time).

Money aside the hardest thing for me about being on uc has been the double whammy of threats of sanctions and evictions by my landlord. This month I got a letter threatening me that the next step would be court action. I've had one every month since February. This time they were asking me to pay my rent five days before my uc payment was paid to me and the letter took ten days to arrive.

I've ended up with a skin condition due to the stress. It's been horrible and I'm not a stranger to anything to do with benefits. I used to work with young people in homeless accommodation most were on benefits and I know about sanctions. The constant pressure from my landlord and the dwp at the same time has been tough. I've been threatened with sanctions for ridiculous things.

glentoran99

Mersey wrote: »

That really did amuse me. There's no reason you should know this, but I'm a solicitor and counter fraud practitioner, so here's the actual latest figures just for you [although they are publically available on gov.uk]


2016/17


JSA fraud 4.7% (highest ever recorded) £100m


HB fraud 4.6% (highest ever recorded) £900m


Carer's Allowance fraud 3.9% £40m


UC fraud 2.5% £40m


Pension credit fraud 2.3% £40m


ESA fraud 2.2% (highest ever recorded) £8 Bn


There are 16 other areas with fraud figures covering everything from NHS fraud, State pension fraud to immigration fraud.


Frankly, I'm surprised you're surprised. Just look at the £1.5 Billion in insurance fraud (covering whiplash and holiday sickness) or how many people tried to claim that smudged Lottery ticket.


Incidentally, I'm not singling out claimants - my point earlier was that there has been an increase in fraud across the board and a decline in standards. It now sadly appears the new norm that 3% of claims are fraudulent. After all, 6 ex-MPs, 2 Peers and 12 Cllrs were jailed for expenses fraud and last year 128 professionals including dentists, doctors and solicitors were all jailed for fraud offences.

If they know how much fraud there is then it shouldn't be a big deal to stop it

annandale

Re fraud. Of course there will be people who play the system. It's still a small percentage and it's very small I believe compared to the billions in unclaimed benefits. I've been on jsa a couple of times in my life for short periods and anytime I worked, I declared my earnings.

I believe there were around 30 tory mps reported for election fraud just before the last election and action into them was dropped

In Scotland just now there's an msp called findlay Carson who paid a company to build him a website. It's owned by him and his brother. He paid them 1200 and then claimed it back on expenses.

Jo Swinson is being investigated for election fraud as is Alex Cole Hamilton. My last mp is a man called frank Roy. He had three homes on taxpayers cash. One in County Hall in London that was worth half a million pounds. He claimed six figure sums in expenses. My current mp claims just over 60000.

Im actually lucky because my full rent is not expensive compared to some areas. It's 243 a month and 215 gets covered by the dwp. The rest I get dhp for. That's thanks to the Scottish government. There are people in England who don't and as I said before there are people in England who don't get dhp and I've known of people who don't get council tax reduction either if they are on uc, it doesn't seem to be automatic in some areas.

Mersey, thanks for your offer, that is very kind of you.

I also read yesterday that some people are being forced off esa and onto jsa or uc and not coping because they can't cope with the jobsearch requirements. And these were people who won esa tribunals. There are also people who are struggling to get accommodation on uc because landlords have had problems getting the rent element paid to them and are simply choosing not to accommodate people on universal credit.

I've said this on other threads. I've a degree and two post grads. I've retrained twice and I am still struggling to find work that's not zero hours (the companies I worked for weren't giving out regular hours).

It's not easy. I've seen a lot of comments about people sitting on their backside doing nothing if you are on uc or jsa. Also comments as if you've never paid a penny into the system yourself.

It's tough out there and I personally think it's going to get a lot tougher going forward.

Mersey_2

glentoran99 wrote: »

If they know how much fraud there is then it shouldn't be a big deal to stop it

All of the above figures are captured frauds. Of course some move abroad or pass away before the Court case.

Mersey_2

annandale wrote: »

Re fraud. Of course there will be people who play the system. It's still a small percentage and it's very small I believe compared to the billions in unclaimed benefits. I've been on jsa a couple of times in my life for short periods and anytime I worked, I declared my earnings.

I believe there were around 30 tory mps reported for election fraud just before the last election and action into them was dropped

Jo Swinson is being investigated for election fraud as is Alex Cole Hamilton. My last mp is a man called frank Roy. He had three homes on taxpayers cash. One in County Hall in London that was worth half a million pounds. He claimed six figure sums in expenses. My current mp claims just over 60000.


Mersey, thanks for your offer, that is very kind of you.

Although in the interests of accuracy I should point out that of the national politicians convicted and jailed for expenses' fraud they were: 6 Labour, 2 LDs, 1 SNP, 1 Tory, 1 Ind. [There's a worrying and disproportionate number of Cllrs of all Parties jailed for child abuse but that's another matter entirely]


Yes, the 'troughing' of the SNP MPs was one of the reasons 20 of them lost their seats in June. [Their then Chief Whip Angus claimed £2k for a bed with built in tv from memory(!)]


You're very welcome re your thanks.

nannytone_2

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Neither do they lose their home if through no fault of their own they cannot afford to pay.

obviously.
if they lose their home through no fault of their own, they do not have an asset.
the same as social housing tenants.

they have the choice to buy or rent.
they chose to buy and then have need of public funds then they recognise that their asset will be depleted

annandale

Without going into two much detail about the SNP MPs who lost their seats this year, Ive checked the information on IPSO and most of the MPs who lost their seats, certainly Kirsten Oswald, Stuart Donaldson, Margaret Ferrier, John Nicolson, Callum McCaig, Callum Kerr, George Kerevan, Phil Boswell claimed between 44k and 70k in expenses in their second year of being in Parliament, having had higher expenses in 2016/17 due to start up costs. Most of the SNP Mps claim around 65-70k, there are some that are slightly higher.

Two of the higher expenses claimants from the SNP were Mike Weir and Angus as far as Im aware but the ones listed above certainly weren't. I have also looked at expense claims from the people they replaced, Gemma Doyle, Margaret Curran, Jim Murphy, Pamela Nash and Frank Roy, all lower. They all claimed six figure sums for years.

Ian Murray who is still an MP was a high expenses claimer certainly in his first few years of being an MP as was Anas Sarwar who was an MP and lost his seat in 2015 and is now an MSP. These people are all labour.

The SNP aren't perfect but on the whole they aren't huge claimers of expenses, I believe the express did a piece saying that they were but that had to be corrected. They claim much lower expenses than the Labour MPs they replaced in 2015 on the whole. George Kerevan who lost his seat in 2017 also claimed a 27k wage instead of 74 and the SNP are the only party who give their pay rise to charity. Nicola also pegs her first ministers salary back to 08/09 levels.

The MP I was referring to who had 3 homes on taxpayers cash and claimed huge expenses was Labour, not SNP. Im doing him a disservice as he didnt claim 250k but he claimed six figure sums and around 160-180 k. He was an MP for 18 years,

Mhairi black also claimed around 65k in expenses last year. There were many reasons why SNP MPs lost their seats but the majority of them claim 1/2 to a third less than the MPs they replaced, I certainly don't see that as troughing.

I cant find any information on any SNP MP jailed for election fraud, There were Scottish MPs jailed but they were both Labour as far as Im aware.

Frank Roys troughing is one of the reasons I no longer vote Labour. My MP who replaced him claimed 64k last year and doesn't have 3 flats on taxpayers cash. If she was like him I wouldn't have voted for her again this year.

I certainly don't think the SNP are perfect, but one of the reasons the 41 Labour MPs got kicked out in 2015 was because of the huge sums in expenses they racked up.

I'll be keeping a very close eye on the expenses of the MPs who were newly voted in in 2017 in Scotland.