UK Parking Ltd - Windsor

Orchard427

Hi - wow forum this is a mine of information, I've had a look through the FAQ's for Newbies, which I certainly am.
I got a PCN at the Castle Car Park in Windsor a few weeks ago, I returned just as the attendant was sticking the notice on which I thought odd as I had a valid ticket which has somehow flipped upside down, obviously 'Not displaying a valid ticket'. He was pleasant enough and said as I had a ticket to appeal.
I appealed through PCN Parking Solutions, (which had a whole swath of photos of the car, signage etc and the upside down ticket), now don't laugh but first rookie error, I gave my name and address.
Recently had a letter from them saying the appeal had failed and that having the ticket was not mitigation, but could appeal within 21days via IAS.
So here's my question having committed my rookie error - should I go the IAS route and use your draft standard letter adapted for my situation, or should I go after the landowner or both.
What chance of success?

Redx

you can and should go down the landowner route

the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread explains that the IAS is a waste of time and energy

Umkomaas

What chance of success?

None via appeal to the IAS.

With the landowner? Who knows, you’ll have to let us know how it goes. We’ve had previous occasional reports about the 'affable’ parking attendant who fools everyone into believing that a simple appeal will sort this out.

Do a forum search on ‘Windsor Castle’ to read the other recent cases and draw some ideas from those. Otherwise, you’re in for the long run - up to 6 years.

UK Parking Ltd are mildly litigious, so you need to be prepared for any court claim by reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2, which gives you the full works on dealing with any potential court case.

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/UK_Parking.html

Orchard427

Thanks for the views, previous replies have also said they are small time and will give up. I'll consider and let you know what happens. Other opinions welcome.

Orchard427

Hi again, I've searched for hours on the webnet and not been able to find the owner of the car park, does anyone have those details please?
I have found the details of UKP ltd owner and address of the 'plumber', (nice house in Essex :-) with his van outside), but I guess appealing direct to the PPC is a waste of time as they say I have reached the end of their appeals process, well they would.
If I can't find the landowner should I just sit tight?
Thx
Fatladattheback

Redx

the LAND REGISTRY will tell you (for a fee)

otherwise , its sit it out , ignoring DCA letters and only respond to an LBC or an MCOL within 6 years

The_Deep

Probably Brenda or The Crown Estate owns the car park.

Although the PPC and IAS think that this as a breach of contract which entitles them to liquidated damages of £100, judges rarely see it that way. Many/most take the view that it is a con, and, if the PPC takes it to court they usually end up £££s out of pocket.

Orchard427

Breakthrough, maybe...
Spent ages on Land Registy website, and reviewing FOI requests to the Council. The upshot being that the car park being named as, ‘Castle Car Park, River Street, Windsor SL4 1QT’ by UKPL, is actually the name of the council car park opposite, according to HM Land Registy and M+W council. UKPL have the address and postcode wrong, or they are being deliberately misleading. I assume the plumber has not done his homework.
The Land Reg title and map were hard to track down as the address is not as above, but the land has been owned by City Securities (London) Ltd since the ‘60s. One of the directors is a MR MARK DAVID MOSSELSON, that name seems familiar from this or another forum.
So if this is not mitigation then I don’t know what is. I feel like appealing now on IAS, writing to UKPL (no email), and telling the counci that someone is using their car park name. Or have I missed something as a rookie?

Umkomaas

The purpose in seeking out the true landowner is to enable you to launch a complaint to them and get them to intervene and get the PPC to cancel the charge.

The IAS will likely sweep this away as ‘irrelevant, unproven and does not override your contractual position with the PPC’ (or some similar fob-off).

Try the Council - if you can get them interested, they could possibly make life difficult for the PPC, but it won’t get your PCN cancelled, I’m afraid.

Orchard427

Thanks for the advice guys. I have now sent letters to;
A. Mr Irons of UK Parking Ltd using your std template from sticky 2, plus adding a chunk from a thread on the signage not detailing any terms of contact, plus another piece I saw requiring planning permission for the sign (which they don't). Also the ticket has the wrong attendant and the wrong address. I also sent an e:mail copy to paymypcn.net for good measure.
B. The land owner, a Mr Mosselson of City Securities Ltd, detailing the practices of his contractor plus potential breaches of planning and contract law.


FYI the correct address for this car park is Jennings Yard, River Street, although they call it 'Castle' car park which is actually the name for the council run one over the road.


We'll see what happens.

fisherjim

I'm afraid you are p'ing in the wind complaining about this.

This is a honey trap and has been notorious for years, the owners don't care, it just makes them a lot of money.

It was a clampers paradise when that was allowed too, twelve cars were clamped on one day when the ticket machines weren't functioning, the police were called at the time but could do nothing.
The other scam they get upto is having the time out of sync on the parking machines.