Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

iro

Based on this thread:

Remoaniacs generally display a 'cant do attitude'

Brexiteers generally display a 'can do attitude'

I think the same is true in life generally

Remoaniacs generally blame others for their problems and lose.

Brexiteers generally 'take control' and win.

.string.

esuhl wrote: »

But we have legally-binding agreements with EU.

If the border was with any old country with whom we had no formal treaties, we could just leave the border unguarded and let the neighbouring country sort out the problem if they wanted.

In order to leave the EU, both parties must come to an agreement on the terms. Thus if the EU don't agree to an open border, then we can't have one.

It's nothing to do with different laws or product regulations.

I agree with Pauciloquent's view, unfortunately as I remember the UK has ruled out that approach. If it had been me I would have stuck with that as at least a pressure point.

The legal point you raised has little substance where one side refuses to counternance arguably viable technology solutions, and then there is the contentious matter of the definition of what the border has been agreed to be and what, exactly, is a hard border.

At the moment this country is being threatened with an influx of terrorism if we don't agree to the EU terms while the EU seems to refuse any obligation to help in finding a solution I object to that sort of blackmail.

But OK, if they can't be constructive, then how about licenses for North and South Ireland to trade with each other unhindered. The UK will continue to trade with Northern Ireland as part of our our internal market, but trade with Ireland will be banned. That solves the Irish Border thing, but decimates the Irish economy without harming N.Ireland. That's the hard Brexit backstop I think.

kabayiri

esuhl wrote: »

...
In order to leave the EU, both parties must come to an agreement on the terms. Thus if the EU don't agree to an open border, then we can't have one.
...

There is a default position, which defines the terms for the Irish border problem though.

It might be one no party likes, but it exists.

Frankly, it's the lowest priority for me. NI is actually a small part of our economy, and any officialdom on the border will do more damage to Eire's economy. They won't want an unsatisfactory solution.

Maybe the looming deadline will make them more pragmatic.

iro

https://brexitcentral.com/heres-need-protectionist-racket-eus-customs-union/

The real bigotry lies in the EU!

French Farmers good

German manufacturers good

Developing world BAD

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

No, YOU don't get it.

The UK are leaving the EU. Thus unless the UK agrees, the EU can not force the UK to abide by any of it's rules.

Is that simple enough?

The UK agreed.

esuhl

wunferall wrote: »

In order to leave the EU the UK could just walk. I'm not advocating this but it is nonetheless true. In that instance the UK could unilaterally decide to have open borders where it wished. The EU can not enforce its rules or desires on another non-member country. (Be honest, the EU has enough trouble getting member countries to stick to their rules.)

Ha ha! :rotfl: Sure, and I could just walk away from my 24-month mobile phone contract that I've just agreed to. Just like that!

Reneging on our agreements makes the UK look untrustworthy and jeopardises any future deals.

We can't just walk away from our promises without there being consequences.

gfplux

How is it possible to negotiate new trade deals if Britain has an open border. I am sure it can be done but it does not give Britain a strong negotiating position.
Yes can do but at what cost?

gfplux

wunferall wrote: »

gfplux, the very first rule of selling is ................ understand your customer.


According to fullfact, only between 5% & 8% of UK business exports to the EU. So it looks like UK businesses already understand their customers, as by far most rely upon UK trade.

Despite your negativity you must surely realise that no contact with prospective customers = no sales. It's no use sitting thinking "I can't". ALL the best salespeople are go-getters with a positive outlook. Nobody says it is (or will be in the future) easy but it can be done. Just as it has been done for centuries.

Obviously wunferall as a salesmen you and I can argue over the first or second rule of selling.
However my point was that all those posters who do not have any experience of selling internationally, unlike you and me, think that selling a British made widget in a new market in a distant land is just a matter of having a can do attitude.
It is a much more complex thing to do and can have unintended consequences some good and some very bad.

By the way one of the many rules of selling is to know how to cope with rejection and to get up again to fight (sell) another day.

It would also appear that all those posters who have no experience of border control think that the Irish border issue can be solved by walking away with the bat and ball. These same posters had not even considered that particular border when they voted for Brexit and now have answers that have nothing to do with the facts but are imaginative flights of fancy.
Instead of that why dont they wait to see what the expert negotiators agree in the next few months. In other words whatever is best for the Tory party.

vivatifosi

wunferall wrote: »

The whole issue is nothing more than another EU attempt to bully the UK because it is unnecessary, as many with experience have stated. Even an EU-funded report by Lars Karlsson said that a smart border could work.

Thanks. I have just found and read the Karlsson report, which is very thorough. Given that Karlsson is an expert of digital border solutions, as a way of breaking the impasse, why don't we just adopt his model and move on?

kabayiri

vivatifosi wrote: »

Thanks. I have just found and read the Karlsson report, which is very thorough. Given that Karlsson is an expert of digital border solutions, as a way of breaking the impasse, why don't we just adopt his model and move on?

The Irish border issue is the pawn in the power game, that's all.

It allows politicians from both sides to issue subtle digs through gritted teeth, whilst appearing to be 'reasonable' to their own audience.

I would not be at all surprised if Spain brings up the Gibraltar issue at the eleventh hour, when a deal is there to be signed on paper.

I know they like to say the EU is this great club, but really it's a bunch of states competing with some common rules. They will still try to game things iMO.