Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Lornapink

gfplux wrote: »

That is not an advantage to Britain of leaving the EU it is part of your wish list.

Global trading autonomy plus a great deal with the EU is of course an advantage. Your obstinate denial of this is a function of your pessimistic outlook, nothing more.


Last night on Radio 4's Any Questions, Remain voting former UK Ambassador to the UN said there are of course huge Brexit opportunities. He point's out 1/2 the worlds fastest growing cities are in The Commonwealth.
Before you say it, Brexit is not an either / or dynamic, it's about good trading with the EU and the globe.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

Which of these fast growing cities want what we make, can afford it, and are hindered by us being in the EU?

This displays the very ignorance of global reality that the new book Factfulness explains. It was written by one of the most respected experts on the Planet, an advisor to the General Sec of the UN and Bill Gates.


I suggest you read it, as he points out, people have a 'them and us' version of the developing world that is some 5 decades out of date.

Lornapink

Tromking wrote: »

Not all consumers share your miserablist view on the goods the U.K. exports, accepting of course that it suits your narrative to be disparaging about our country’s post Brexit future.

I pointed out to a miserablist online the other day that this little island isn't too shabby given it managed second place at the Rio Olympics, beating mighty China. His cognitive dissonance was so impacted that he denied this fact and said even if it was true, it was a nothing. Talk about self-loathing.

Tromking

Lornapink wrote: »

I pointed out to a miserablist online the other day that this little island isn't too shabby given it managed second place at the Rio Olympics, beating mighty China. His cognitive dissonance was so impacted that he denied this fact and said even if it was true, it was a nothing. Talk about self-loathing.

Wanton remainer self loathing is one of the oddest character traits they display. Again it’s suits the Remain cause to portray the U.K. as somehow uniquely incapable of existing outwith the EU, but it obviously fails to stand up to any reasonable scrutiny. It reminds me of the old school lefties who get acutely embarrassed by outward displays of patriotism and who then seek to rubbish it.

Ballard

A lot has been said since the referendum that our vote to leave the EU is by definition a vote to leave the single market but that flies in the face of what the arch Leavers were saying before the referendum.

I dare say that most of us have already seen this video (and it may have already been posted on here - I don't visit particularly regularly). It's been around for a while but has recently been reposted on my Facebook feed so I thought it worth posting on here for the sake of discussion.

https://youtu.be/0xGt3QmRSZY

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

I think the point others are trying to make is that growing countries and cities by definition are an opportunity, and that opportunity will be enhanced by the ability to broker mutually beneficial trade deals with those growth areas. British goods do have a certain cache (sp?) to them and I’m surely the burgeoning middle class in those countries will want a piece of that. Not all consumers share your miserablist view on the goods the U.K. exports, accepting of course that it suits your narrative to be disparaging about our country’s post Brexit future.

It's a valid point that I don't dispute. However the details matter; there needs to be more than growth to justify it as a benefit of Brexit. If they don't want our stuff, can't afford it, or can buy it in the same way under the EU, then there's no benefit in it for Brexit.

We sell luxury goods most of the 2bn people in the common wealth don't want and can't afford. Cutting tariffs will help those that do want and can afford but will do nothing for the rest.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

This displays the very ignorance of global reality that the new book Factfulness explains. It was written by one of the most respected experts on the Planet, an advisor to the General Sec of the UN and Bill Gates.


I suggest you read it, as he points out, people have a 'them and us' version of the developing world that is some 5 decades out of date.

Not at all. Take India as presumably the largest chunk of the common wealth at 1-1.5bn. How many of them can afford our cars or artisan cheese?

We can sell their government planes and weapons, but we're not going to be able to produce much of interest to most of the population.
Those that can afford stuff are buying it anyway.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

...
I'd guess that for a hypothetical British made microwave, at least 90% of the material is imported, for instance

I own a top of the line microwave with a German brand name. It's a lot more expensive than the stuff you can pick up at Argos etc.

It *was* made in the UK. It's not hypothetical.

When you pay a lot for something, you expect a lot from it. You expect it to last and you pay good money to local people to service the equipment regularly.

In my view we need more of this, not less.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

It's a valid point that I don't dispute. However the details matter; there needs to be more than growth to justify it as a benefit of Brexit. If they don't want our stuff, can't afford it, or can buy it in the same way under the EU, then there's no benefit in it for Brexit.

We sell luxury goods most of the 2bn people in the common wealth don't want and can't afford. Cutting tariffs will help those that do want and can afford but will do nothing for the rest.

We haven't really an option now.

We will never make £30 blu-ray players, or £15 kettles.

Those markets have gone.

There are more billionaires in the world now than ever before. There is a growing wealthy class in places like India.

We need to be clever as to who we target, and understand what these consumers see in brand UK, and how we can build on that.

As I said before, Brexit affords an opportunity to re-appraise what we do. It's not a guarantee of anything. I think we need singular focus.

fatbeetle

Herzlos wrote: »

Which of these fast growing cities want what we make, can afford it, and are hindered by us being in the EU?

The EU is represented by the EU Commission in all international trade negotiations, and member states cannot negotiate their own trade deals with third countries.