Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Jackmydad

Lornapink wrote: »

Labour's answer to every issue is spend more money.

Voters perceive that in reality, regardless of what Fullfact may conclude on one narrow point, that the tone of a Labour Govt will be tax n spend and that in the real world this will indeed place higher taxes on the rump middle class, even if it means by sneaky Brownesque tactics such as NI increase (NI is income tax by another name).

They should actually have that as a sub-heading on their logo.

Ballard

Lornapink wrote: »

Remainers were bleated about ToyrRus closing being a consequence of Brexit.


Yesterday Morrison's announced a nice jump in profits. Presumably nothing to do with Brexit?

I don’t follow this thread regularly but wasn’t it just one poster connecting the two? If so then it’s not RemainerS.

Moby

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then ask yourself why Corbyn was never ever made a minister under any previous Labour leader. Given his years of experience and knowledge. Only a matter of time before the game of charades stops. PM's questions the other day was another illustration of just how badly his own backbenchers view him and his antics.

I saw PMQ's yesterday and he quite clearly bested May. All she could do was trot out hackneyed lines on the Welsh NHS and Labours spending plans making the country bankrupt etc. The whole point of Corbyn is that he doesn't indulge in 'antics'. He really believes what he says. He is not an opportunist. That's why so many people are supporting him. As to whether he has the skills to be a PM. He's been on the right side of the big decisions this country has made. He could have kept us out of the Iraq war....just like Wilson kept us out of the Vietnam war. I also think all the skilled politicians will do an Owen Smith and will flock back to the front benches and also take jobs in Govmt if Labour won.

Moby

Lornapink wrote: »

Labour's answer to every issue is spend more money.

Voters perceive that in reality, regardless of what Fullfact may conclude on one narrow point, that the tone of a Labour Govt will be tax n spend and that in the real world this will indeed place higher taxes on the rump middle class, even if it means by sneaky Brownesque tactics such as NI increase (NI is income tax by another name).

So in the absence of fact 'tone is a substitute word! We need to increase tax because our public services are in a mess. At the last election May thought that 'the voters' would therefore back her with a majority of 60 seats upwards. By the end of the campaign she was hanging on by her fingernails and lost her majority. From the polls it seems the split is now 50-50 with minor leads here and there for either party. From where Corbyn started that's a huge advance and it's now a question of how much longer the public will swallow the tory line that there is no alternative to austerity. We'll see!

cogito

Moby wrote: »

I saw PMQ's yesterday and he quite clearly bested May. All she could do was trot out hackneyed lines on the Welsh NHS and Labours spending plans making the country bankrupt etc. The whole point of Corbyn is that he doesn't indulge in 'antics'. He really believes what he says. He is not an opportunist. That's why so many people are supporting him. As to whether he has the skills to be a PM. He's been on the right side of the big decisions this country has made. He could have kept us out of the Iraq war....just like Wilson kept us out of the Vietnam war. I also think all the skilled politicians will do an Owen Smith and will flock back to the front benches and also take jobs in Govmt if Labour won.

Come off it. Corbyn has wanted out of the EU for 40 years and suddenly he wants to remain in it via a customs union. He's simply trying to undermine the government in the hope of winning power. And you say he's not an opportunist or indulge in antics.

Moby

cogito wrote: »

Come off it. Corbyn has wanted out of the EU for 40 years and suddenly he wants to remain in it via a customs union. He's simply trying to undermine the government in the hope of winning power. And you say he's not an opportunist or indulge in antics.

Staying in a Customs Union is not staying in the EU that's just Brextremist propaganda. Corbyn is about protecting jobs. Coming out of the Single Market and the Customs Union will be economically disasterous for this country. Every dog on the street knows that.

Filo25

Moby wrote: »

I saw PMQ's yesterday and he quite clearly bested May. All she could do was trot out hackneyed lines on the Welsh NHS and Labours spending plans making the country bankrupt etc. The whole point of Corbyn is that he doesn't indulge in 'antics'. He really believes what he says. He is not an opportunist. That's why so many people are supporting him. As to whether he has the skills to be a PM. He's been on the right side of the big decisions this country has made. He could have kept us out of the Iraq war....just like Wilson kept us out of the Vietnam war. I also think all the skilled politicians will do an Owen Smith and will flock back to the front benches and also take jobs in Govmt if Labour won.

He may have been on the right side of the Iraq decision (so were nearly half the population of the country, myself included, so he hardly had a unique insight on that one), he certainly hasn't been on many others no matter how many want to repaint his history now.

He was wrong on Ireland, where he favoured capitulation to the IRA much though he now tries to dress it up as holding imaginary peace talks (he really needed to speak to someone else as well as Sinn Fein to be holding talks surely).

I don't think many would say he was right on the Balkans either, apart from the usual conspiracy theorists.

He's been happy enough to make supportive noises about some pretty repressive regimes over the years as well (as long as they were anti-US, a lot of them seemed to get a pass).

I'm not the typical Labour basher on here either, I was a member of the party until recently, but the deification of a man with pretty unpleasant views on a number of topics genuinely riles me.

Maybe it hits me closer to home as I grew up in NI during a pretty unpleasant time in its history, but while I can understand the motivations that led to Sinn Fein/IRA, and Britain's policy failures that led to that sorry state of affairs, it still doesn't absolve a pretty horrible organisation of various atrocities committed during the Troubles, much less caused them to be gaining words of support from the likes of Abbott/Corbyn and McDonnell.

Plus he believes in Homeopathy

I suppose many on here would think he was right with his lifelong Euroscepticism (although not his rationale for it) but for me his half hearted campaign was a betrayal of the views of the majority of party members, it was also a betrayal of his true beliefs as you wouldn't have to search too heard to find evidence his real beliefs on the EU before he had to hide them away after becoming leader.

cogito

Staying in a customs union means not being able to make trade deals with other countries. That's going to be great for jobs, I don't think.

Moby

Filo25 wrote: »

He may have been on the right side of the Iraq decision (so were nearly half the population of the country, myself included, so he hardly had a unique insight on that one), he certainly hasn't been on many others no matter how many want to repaint his history now.

He was wrong on Ireland, where he favoured capitulation to the IRA much though he now tries to dress it up as holding imaginary peace talks (he really needed to speak to someone else as well as Sinn Fein to be holding talks surely).

I don't think many would say he was right on the Balkans either, apart from the usual conspiracy theorists.

He's been happy enough to make supportive noises about some pretty repressive regimes over the years as well (as long as they were anti-US, a lot of them seemed to get a pass).

I'm not the typical Labour basher on here either, I was a member of the party until recently, but the deification of a man with pretty unpleasant views on a number of topics genuinely riles me.

Maybe it hits me closer to home as I grew up in NI during a pretty unpleasant time in its history, but while I can understand the motivations that led to Sinn Fein/IRA, and Britain's policy failures that led to that sorry state of affairs, it still doesn't absolve a pretty horrible organisation of various atrocities committed during the Troubles, much less caused them to be gaining words of support from the likes of Abbott/Corbyn and McDonnell.

Plus he believes in Homeopathy

I suppose many on here would think he was right with his lifelong Euroscepticism (although not his rationale for it) but for me his half hearted campaign was a betrayal of the views of the majority of party members, it was also a betrayal of his true beliefs as you wouldn't have to search too heard to find evidence his real beliefs on the EU before he had to hide them away after becoming leader.

I agreed with much you say above myself but changed my mind about him when I met him through my union. He believes in a unified Ireland so what.....I do!..there is no evidence that he supported any violence though in the pursuit of that aim. As for the rest of it he doesn't toe the line of the traditional western stance. Every western Gomvt has supported repressive regimes of one sort or another. Thatcher liked Pinochet, Blair shook hands with Gaddafi and May likes the Saudis. Why does Corbyn therefore deserve extra dollops of opproprium and suspicion? Imo it's because he is more anti establishment than the others and doesn't play the game in the way expected of him. That's why he is different and a breath of fresh air. That's why young people like him and they are not so concerned with his past. The one thing I totally disagree with him on is Europe but on this my position is basically....... he's offering a softer brexit than the tories and I totally agree with his social policies so that's good enough for me. I don't deify him at all but being practical he offers for the first time in many years a genuine difference to what has been before.

Moby

cogito wrote: »

Staying in a customs union means not being able to make trade deals with other countries. That's going to be great for jobs, I don't think.

The new jobs created by new trade deals will in no way compensate for the ones we will lose when we leave the EU.