Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

studentguy

tracey3596 wrote: »

Oh the desperation!
Decisive that, The Mail with it's circulation of under 1.5 million from a population of 65 million will have made all the difference.
The Financial Times Europhile stance will be why the better-educated supposedly voted for the EU too I suppose?
Yes, they both had a vital impact in the referendum.
:rotfl:

And The Sun, and the Daily Express, and the Daily Star, and the Daily Telegraph...
Yes this did have a huge impact on the referendum, if you read that anti-EU drivel every day for 20 years it's bound to have some impact, no?

"The findings, which cover two sample days of coverage a week during the first two months of the referendum campaign immediately after David Cameron's post-summit Cabinet meeting on 20 February, find that of the 928 articles focused on the referendum, 45% were in favour of leaving compared with only 27% in favour of staying in the EU. Of the remainder, 19% of articles focused on the referendum were categorised as !!!8216;mixed or undecided!!!8217; and 9% as adopting no position."
http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-05-23-uk-newspapers-positions-brexit

tracey3596 wrote: »

The reality is that it's the EU that has been recognized for years as a prime proponent of propaganda here in the UK and elsewhere within the EU.
This is from Open Europe in 2008:

http://archive.openeurope.org.uk/Content/documents/Pdfs/hardsell.pdf
Have a read because it is interesting stuff indeed.

This use of propaganda was highlighted late last year by this in The Times, for example:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eus-3m-war-chest-to-fund-brussels-propaganda-g0v0zqfls

Then of course even insidious things like the wide use of the blue EU signs saying "This project is funded by the European Union" are propaganda when the reality is that such things are in fact funded by our own money which has been paid to the EU and then returned to fund the project.

How dare the EU try and advertise the good things it does. If you believe the old "but it's our money they're actually spending" line, well okay, but it's highly unlikely we'd spend it on the good projects the EU spend it on. Coincidentally the money we'll save from not being part of the EU will be mostly lost due to our economy shrinking

FT research shows that the weekly hit to the British economy could be the same £350m that Leave campaigners promised to claw back
(https://www.ft.com/content/e3b29230-db5f-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482)

But nope, keep your head in the sand, Brexit will be a success!!!!!!

wunferall

Filo25 wrote: »

Saw a decent piece in the FT yesterday, mentioning how the UK had probably surrendered some negotiating power by allowing the EU to prepare a draft withdrawal agreement first, as that will likely now become the starting point for any future negotiations.

Amazing the amount of furore over the Irish border question yesterday, the EU isn't saying what is in the document is the final answer to that issue, but are still waiting to hear sensible proposals from Britain that will avoid the need to follow that path.

It is still hard to see how the UK can address the border issue given the numerous self imposed redlines they have boxed themselves in with, it was a problem in December and nothing much has changed since then.

But the UK have and the EU agreed. Not only that but posts here a few days ago showed EU research suggesting that the UK proposals were not only possible but would actually benefit the UK.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8042/CBP-8042.pdf
In Para.4 the EU clearly accept that a unique solution will be needed AND they accept the need to continue to recognize the Good Friday Agreement.
Why now then are the EU doing an about-face? Before you say "no concrete plans", HOW is it possible to make firm plans when the EU will not approve what has been previously agreed?

But no, it's the UK fault according to some. That briefing paper alone shows clearly that this is another EU attempt to disregard its subjects wishes, just like they are doing with FOM and future citizenship. The EU are clearly using its citizens as nothing more than pawns.

Tromking

Theophile wrote: »

It doesn't need to become a doom-laden mess if we get the right brexit outcome i.e. 'Brexit in name only' also known as BRINO

I must say I am looking forward to the level of political chaos there will be if Brexit is fudged or maybe even overridden completely.
17m Leave voters with varying degrees of annoyance at the betrayal of democracy will make this country borderline ungovernable.
I’m not sure your average Remoaner in his/her desperation to overturn or water down Brexit understands the potential ramifications for our democracy if their world view prevails without a democratic mandate to back it up.

phillw

Tromking wrote: »

When things settle down, we!!!8217;ll co-exist with our European friends pleasantly enough.

I guess that depends on how much resentment people have for perceived punishment by the EU, because they didn't get everything they wanted.

Tromking wrote: »

I must say I am looking forward to the level of political chaos there will be if Brexit is fudged or maybe even overridden completely.
17m Leave voters with varying degrees of annoyance at the betrayal of democracy will make this country borderline ungovernable.

You're looking forward to chaos? Really?

There are 65 million people in the UK, with only 17 million angry leave voters to appease.

What about the 48 million angry people who didn't vote for brexit?

Filo25 wrote: »

It is still hard to see how the UK can address the border issue given the numerous self imposed redlines they have boxed themselves in with, it was a problem in December and nothing much has changed since then.

The euro sceptics are so punch drunk with victory they can't even see that there is a problem to solve. The pro EU MPs don't have a voice. This is all cheered on but the leave voters who want chaos.

We better get ready for a rough ride.

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

I guess that depends on how much resentment people have for perceived punishment by the EU, because they didn't get everything they wanted.

You're forgetting what Cameron's bungled jaunt around Europe caused. When he returned without even crumbs it led to the vote to leave so don't imagine that the people of the UK will not view EU obstinacy as anything else and react accordingly. Without harking on the past, still two fingers springs to mind.

phillw

Cameron came back with more than he should have. It's not the EU's fault the demands were unreasonable. I guess resentment is still too great for reason.

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

I guess that depends on how much resentment people have for perceived punishment by the EU, because they didn't get everything they wanted.



You're looking forward to chaos? Really?

There are 65 million people in the UK, with only 17 million angry leave voters to appease.

What about the 48 million angry people who didn't vote for brexit?

phillw are you deliberately being disingenuous?
The UK electorate is under 48 million out of which under 34 million actually voted in the referendum. Much though you might want the remaining 30-odd million of the UK's population to be on one side or another you cannot decide for them.
The time for voting has been and gone; respect the democratic decision.

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

Cameron came back with more than he should have. It's not the EU's fault the demands were unreasonable. I guess resentment is still too great for reason.

So unreasonable that it led to a referendum AND subsequently a vote to leave. The EU haven't learned from that, have they?

Theophile

Tromking wrote: »

I must say I am looking forward to the level of political chaos there will be if Brexit is fudged or maybe even overridden completely.
17m Leave voters with varying degrees of annoyance at the betrayal of democracy will make this country borderline ungovernable.
I’m not sure your average Remoaner in his/her desperation to overturn or water down Brexit understands the potential ramifications for our democracy if their world view prevails without a democratic mandate to back it up.

Don't worry, you'll get your brexit.
No need to huff and puff about betrayals, 17m voters, democratic mandates and that so called will 'o' the people.
Until further notice, we still live in a parliamentary democracy so government and parliament will define the brexit we'll get.
That's democracy.
Mob rule isn't.

gfplux

Finally interesting news from WTO

QUOTE
DG AZEVÊDO STRESSES NEED FOR INCLUSIVENESS, TRANSPARENCY AND FLEXIBILITY IN WTO TALKS
In a speech delivered to the Graduate Institute in Geneva on 28 February, Director-General Roberto Azevêdo underlined the importance of WTO members taking inclusive, transparent and flexible approaches in all their discussions at the WTO and working to !!!8220;creatively improve!!!8221; the functioning of the organization.
Speech: https://www.wto.org/english/news_e/spra_e/spra214_e.htm
END QUOTE