Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Arklight

cogito wrote: »

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with immigrants entering the country legally or genuine refugees. I do have a problem with economic migrants who you think haven't got enough money to eat but in reality manage to find thousands of pounds to pay to people smugglers. They've more chance of dying in leaky boats than of hunger in their own countries.

Often this money is the result of the entire family pooling their savings to send one person. Do you seriously think that there are people in Syria and Somalia living like kings but just deciding one day to hand over a few years salary to someone to make a crossing to Europe in which they're likely to be robbed, killed or drowned?

I get that a lot of people on this forum have some systemic dislike of young people, and foreigners in general, but try and put yourself in the position of having a young relative, that you care about, who has no future in your country but might do in another one. They’re just doing exactly what you would do.

cogito

Arklight wrote: »

Often this money is the result of the entire family pooling their savings to send one person. Do you seriously think that there are people in Syria and Somalia living like kings but just deciding one day to hand over a few years salary to someone to make a crossing to Europe in which they're likely to be robbed, killed or drowned?

I get that a lot of people on this forum have some systemic dislike of young people, and foreigners in general, but try and put yourself in the position of having a young relative, that you care about, who has no future in your country but might do in another one. They’re just doing exactly what you would do.

I've no idea what I would do but one thing I wouldn't do is expect another country to allow me to enter illegally. If they choose to put themselves at risk in order to get here, that's entirely up to them. If they are genuine refugees or asylum seekers, that's a different matter entirely.

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

Many of the gains were made a couple of decades ago.

It's the same with things like manufacturing quality. So much was learnt coming through the 80s and into the 90s.

The EU had some laudable ideals, but I think it has been living off past glories since the start of this millennium at least.

For balance, so has the UK. Brexit is an opportunity to reappraise just where we stand in the new world order. We will truly have to sink or swim.

Sadly Brexit is not a reappraisal it’s action before appraisal.

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

For local authorities, it costs about £40 per bin bag to collect strewn litter. That's a lot of money, especially now when money is pretty tight in the public purse. Couple of hundred bags of litter, or a knee operation...what's your priority?

Ironically, the desire to reduce landfill has increased waste collection costs, and encouraged more fly tipping.

It's too easy to say EU good, UK bad. These are difficult challenges and I personally believe society has to change how we view social responsibility.

I can agree fully with your third paragraph.
This is probably off topic.
There is no such thing as local authority’s money it is rate payers money. When the council spend money on clearing fly tipping they are spending rate payers money.
When a rate payer drops litter on the high street he then pays someone to pick it up but it would have been free for the rate payer to put the litter in a bin.
Society has to wake up to the fact that council spends their money sometimes on their bad behaviour.
There appears a disconnect between ratepayers and what they think of as council services.
That disconnect extends to voting for the councillors who will actually allocate that money, the rate payers money.
When the votes are counted in the council elections in May 2018 what will the turnout be....30% perhaps 35%
If you don’t vote you have no right to take part in a debate about how your money is spent. Just carry on dropping litter, don’t take any responsibility.

gfplux

I understand that British manufacturing did very well in 2017. This will be due to lots of hard work plus the following wind of a devalued currency.
Given that the pound continues to be weak against the Euro and much of British manufacturing is exporting to the EU we should expect 2018 will be more of the same.
The only dark cloud would be the fear by customers of a “no deal” which should be a fear for the manufacturer as well.
Do any posters on this thread work in manufacturing.
Is it possible for them to tell us how business is.
With the above clouds on the horizon have they seen extra exports to non EU27 country’s which might provide compensation for any lost business to the EU due to a “no deal”
If a poster is in management could they tell us if they are making a push for more business from 3rd Country’s and if they are not they will know where the goods are going too wether they are in the office, on the production line or in dispatch.

We all have opinions but in this thread we continue to lack postings by people who work at the coal face.

Before anyone says, yes I do know that manufacturing is a modest proportion of GDP but we are told leaving the EU will preserve and build Britains manufacturing base. The groundwork for that should be being done now.

Rinoa

Arklight wrote: »

Often this money is the result of the entire family pooling their savings to send one person. Do you seriously think that there are people in Syria and Somalia living like kings but just deciding one day to hand over a few years salary to someone to make a crossing to Europe in which they're likely to be robbed, killed or drowned?

I get that a lot of people on this forum have some systemic dislike of young people, and foreigners in general, but try and put yourself in the position of having a young relative, that you care about, who has no future in your country but might do in another one. They’re just doing exactly what you would do.

You'd have to travel a long way to get to the EU.

Why don't nearby arab and african countries offer to take them in?

Enterprise_1701C

Arklight wrote: »

Often this money is the result of the entire family pooling their savings to send one person. Do you seriously think that there are people in Syria and Somalia living like kings but just deciding one day to hand over a few years salary to someone to make a crossing to Europe in which they're likely to be robbed, killed or drowned?

I get that a lot of people on this forum have some systemic dislike of young people, and foreigners in general, but try and put yourself in the position of having a young relative, that you care about, who has no future in your country but might do in another one. They’re just doing exactly what you would do.

If they are so keen on this, then maybe they should take the legal route and apply for a visa.

I most certainly would not put a young relative in the hands of people traffickers who would probably kill them rather than risk being discovered, and who then put them in unsafe boats.

There is a reason they take this route, they know they would not be granted a visa.

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

There is a reason they take this route, they know they would not be granted a visa.

And are presumably pretty desperate. You don't give your families life savings to a trafficker to send you on a horrific journey to Europe just because you want a better salary.

I do agree that they should be encouraged to go to the nearest safe countries rather than getting trafficked across the Med. We should probably be doing a lot more in that regard, but there's enough people outraged that we spend anything on foreign aid.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

And are presumably pretty desperate. You don't give your families life savings to a trafficker to send you on a horrific journey to Europe just because you want a better salary.

Same reason that Irish families sent their children to the USA. £6 for a one way ticket. Send one family member over. Get a job. Send the money back. Another family member goes over. More money is sent back. In time the whole family moves. Including those unable to work.

History has a habit of repeating itself. As people without anything. Will do anything. A different mindset to those that believe that they have the right to everything. For doing nothing. While never losing community spirit and the willingness to support each other not just line their own pockets.

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

When the votes are counted in the council elections in May 2018 what will the turnout be....30% perhaps 35%

65% in 2015.

Be an opportunity to express broader opinions in 2018.