Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

phillw

Lornapink wrote: »

What is your evidence that temporary fruit pickers hate nations that offer temporary pickers visa's, to include Australia and Japan?

The EU pickers have said they can get more money elsewhere now and that they don't feel welcome in the UK because of the hostile environment.

It's delusional to think you can make an argument about all these foreigners coming here and stealing our jobs and claiming benefits to skew public perception of the EU for some short term personal gain and not expect it to also affect the people you want to come here (if you didn't get a short term personal gain then you're one of the pawns for the people who did).

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

Lorna; all those increases are good news. Are any caused by or related to Brexit?

I'm not sure anyone's keeping a tally of gains/losses which is a shame.

You do realise that no one is claiming there won't be new jobs post brexit; just less than there would otherwise be?

Remainers completely ignore any and all opportunities arising from our status as a fully autonomous global nation that enjoys the first or second position in global soft power rankings.
Instead of focussing on loss, why not focus on far greater potential opportunity? Losses will be minimal, business soon adapts and innovates as shown on Newsnight last night.

Lornapink

phillw wrote: »

The EU pickers have said they can get more money elsewhere now and that they don't feel welcome in the UK because of the hostile environment.

It's delusional to think you can make an argument about all these foreigners coming here and stealing our jobs and claiming benefits to skew public perception of the EU for some short term personal gain and not expect it to also affect the people you want to come here (if you didn't get a short term personal gain then you're one of the pawns for the people who did).

Thousands more Europeans chose to come make a life here each month than leave. They know Britain doesn't have the appalling mass migrant rough sleeping camps all the way along roads and in parks as seen in France, that there would be uproar if we had this scale of abandonment. They know Britain has nothing like the hostile asylum environment that Denmark and others now have.
They know Britain is inherently fair compared to most. Have you been to Italy lately? I have, the way immigrants are treated is something from another world compared to good old bend over backwards Blighty.


France and others have a hostile environment towards Islam such as banning face coverings.

Germany, Holland and others saw far more pungent narratives in their General Elections, indeed Germany, Austria, Czech Rep', Hungary Poland and others have actual far-right politicians in power now.


Britain is seen as a beacon of justice hence why people risk life n limb trying to escape France to come here.
You have a very skewed insular idea as to how we're seen compared to European nations.

phillw

Lornapink wrote: »

Remainers completely ignore any and all opportunities arising from our status as a fully autonomous global nation that enjoys the first or second position in global soft power rankings.

We enjoyed that during our european phase. How we are perceived has changed considerably in the last two years.

Lornapink wrote: »

Thousands more Europeans chose to come make a life here each month than leave.

The discussion was about temporary workers, who have never wanted to permanently live here. If you're changing to people who are trying to get in before the cut off so they can get permanent residence here then that is entirely different.

Lornapink wrote: »

WHO stats show just 1 Doctor for up to 300,000 citizens in some low income countries. These nations spend their meagre resources on training these vital personnel, only for greedy over-entitled Brits to encourage them to come here leaving the most desperate children on the planet with nothing.

Unfortunately your proposal is unworkable because student doctors in poor countries don't get the opportunities to complete their training due to lack of training jobs. So the only solution that meets your objectives is to bring the children over here so they can be treated by the NHS. I'm sure you'd support that, if you cared about them at all and weren't just using them as cheap point scoring. You'd have trouble convincing the greedy 52% of the country who want to reduce immigration, but you should of course https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThinkOfTheChildren

Filo25

Lornapink wrote: »

Remainers completely ignore any and all opportunities arising from our status as a fully autonomous global nation that enjoys the first or second position in global soft power rankings.
Instead of focussing on loss, why not focus on far greater potential opportunity? Losses will be minimal, business soon adapts and innovates as shown on Newsnight last night.

Businesses will indeed adapt, in the case of a cliff-edge Hard Brexit on WTO terms, in many cases they will adapt by moving activities and jobs offshore.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

He's saying the English dislike foreigners, not that foreigners dislike the English.

Here's what he said;

The reality is that post brexit they can earn more money working elsewhere & they don't have to put up coming to a country they have discovered hates foreigners coming here.

Originally posted by phillw

He implies they dislike the UK now, it's utter nonsense. When I go to Austria skiing, the Austrians openly complain about Romanians and others visiting as they see them as vermin. Even hotel owners loudly bemoan them - we saw the evicting of Romanians from public swimming baths and shouting they were dirty and unwelcome. You just don't see this on this casual 'everwhere' scale in the UK.


Love Island is a window onto British character. Several of the girls falling for / fancying the 2 black guys in there. Nobody bat's an eyelid, this is the reality of Britain, not the Remainers toxic mischaracterisations.
People dislike MASS IMMIGRATION, for the thousandth time, not immigration per se

Lornapink

Filo25 wrote: »

Businesses will indeed adapt, in the case of a cliff-edge Hard Brexit on WTO terms, in many cases they will adapt by moving activities and jobs offshore.

They really wont, you lot promised Banks would have long by now. The markets priced-in downside risk yonks ago, they're booming. Yes some will redeploy but the net effect is MORE not less prosperity and opportunity.


Ardent Remainers just wont see the upside, it's akin to a cult-like fanaticism, clinging to familiarity, fearing change and the new.

Arklight

Lornapink wrote: »

Thousands more Europeans chose to come make a life here each month than leave. They know Britain doesn't have the appalling mass migrant rough sleeping camps all the way along roads and in parks as seen in France, that there would be uproar if we had this scale of abandonment. They know Britain has nothing like the hostile asylum environment that Denmark and others now have.
They know Britain is inherently fair compared to most. Have you been to Italy lately? I have, the way immigrants are treated is something from another world compared to good old bend over backwards Blighty.


France and others have a hostile environment towards Islam such as banning face coverings.

Germany, Holland and others saw far more pungent narratives in their General Elections, indeed Germany, Austria, Czech Rep', Hungary Poland and others have actual far-right politicians in power now.


Britain is seen as a beacon of justice hence why people risk life n limb trying to escape France to come here.
You have a very skewed insular idea as to how we're seen compared to European nations.

This would be great, if it weren't unsubstantiated fact free rubbish.

The UK receives an absolutely paltry number of asylum applications per year. 33,000. Less than Greece at 60,000, France at 100,000, Italy at 130,000, and Germany at 220,000.

Belgium and the Netherlands combined, despite being a fraction of our size, have 36,000 applications a year.

Your post is just indicative of a classic "Little Englander" whose knowledge of the world extends to what Richard Littlejohn told you to believe and no further.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/welcomingeurope/default_en.htm

Lornapink

So Remainers, what does Remain look like? You would have to explain this in a second vote campaign. Remain = uncertainty.

Here's what some in the EU say;
Britain is free to change its mind and stay in the EU, but would have to give up special perks including the hard-fought budget rebate, the European parliament!!!8217;s coordinator on Brexit has said.

The Liberal MEP Guy Verhofstadt picked up on comments made by the French president, Emmanuel Macron, on Tuesday that the door to the EU would remain open to Britain during Brexit negotiations.
!!!8220;I agree,!!!8221; he said. !!!8220;But like Alice in Wonderland, not all the doors are the same. It will be a brand new door, with a new Europe, a Europe without rebates, without complexity, with real powers and with unity.!!!8221;


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/perks-end-uk-eu-guy-verhofstadt

phillw

Lornapink wrote: »

He implies they dislike the UK now, it's utter nonsense. When I go to Austria skiing, the Austrians openly complain about Romanians and others visiting as they see them as vermin.

I didn't say they dislike the UK, I said that they felt after all the anti immigrant rhetoric during the referendum that was designed to manipulate how you thought about the EU (and admittedly was very successful against some people) has made those migrant workers less loyal.

How is skiing with some racist austrians relevant?

Lornapink wrote: »

People dislike MASS IMMIGRATION, for the thousandth time, not immigration per se

Not all people just dislike mass immigration. Some very vocal people dislike all immigration. You had a yes/no vote and you decided to side with those vocal people. You are now forever linked with those people whether you like it or not. You can say it's unfair, but you have to accept responsibility for your actions and you don't always get everything you want. I hope the possibility of maybe a slight reduction in immigration, but with lower prosperity was worth it for your association.

Most people who voted remain aren't fans of mass immigration either, that wasn't a reason to vote to leave the EU. Most of our legal migrants came from outside the EU. We could have done something about that, but there were two reasons we didn't.

1. it would cost money

2. allowing more immigrants to come in and then blame them was seen as a way of getting people to vote to leave the EU.