NCP PCN - appeal denied going 1 minute over stay due to injured child

Themadcow

Hi all,

My wife was recently issued a PCN for going 1 minute over stay (exit time 11:45, time on ticket 11:44) in an NCP car park.

I maybe hastily appealed this, citing that the reason for the delayed exit was that my child had broken their leg, and that my wife needed to spend longer than anticipated transferring them from wheelchair into the car. The NCP car park is opposite a hospital fracture clinic, and I have evidence of the injury.

Despite this, NCP turned down my appeal citing breach of contract and said "they have considered the comments you have made" but did not directly mention the mitigating circumstances of my child's broken leg.

Does anyone know what steps I should take next? Obviously they are going with the blackmail approach that I can appeal to POPLA but if unsuccessful I will be liable for £100 rather than £60, which is pretty disgusting.

Any knowledgeable advice would be welcome!

Thanks,

pappa_golf

ask them to explain why they have not allowed a grace period , not less than 10 mins as per BPA code of practice

Coupon-mad

Does anyone know what steps I should take next?

Win at POPLA, like we pretty much always do against NCP.

My wife was recently issued a PCN for going 1 minute over stay (exit time 11:45, time on ticket 11:44) in an NCP car park.

I disagree.

The PCN cannot possibly have been for a 1 minute overstay. NCP would never have issued it for that.

It will be for something else, maybe if the wrong VRN was input when paying? Did you send a copy of the PDT ticket with the appeal, and has it got the right VRN on it?

Themadcow

Heya - originally the PCN was for failure to obtain a valid parking ticket, but this was incorrect as the machine was failing to accept the REG number of the car. We produced the pay and display ticket and sent it with the clear expiry of 11:44 compared to the photographic exit time of 11:45 and the explanation. They accepted the ticket was valid, but said that we'd breached contract regardless.

From what I'm reading above, it's worth taking further as a PCN for 1 minute overstay is highly irregular - irrespective of mitigating circumstances?

The_Deep

Have you contacted the local paper, they love this sort of story, and the PPC will look bad.

fisherjim

Themadcow wrote: »

Heya - originally the PCN was for failure to obtain a valid parking ticket, but this was incorrect as the machine was failing to accept the REG number of the car. We produced the pay and display ticket and sent it with the clear expiry of 11:44 compared to the photographic exit time of 11:45 and the explanation. They accepted the ticket was valid, but said that we'd breached contract regardless.

From what I'm reading above, it's worth taking further as a PCN for 1 minute overstay is highly irregular - irrespective of mitigating circumstances?

No you are not getting this, you do not have a pcn for going over by one minute, you have it as they say you never paid at all, as there is no record of your car registration number in their silly computer system.

They are saying the ticket never had your vrn on it so it was invalid!

This is a common problem with these systems and the PPC's love it as they hide behind terms and conditions even though you paid, and it's their system that is the problem.

You are quite right about "the blackmail approach" that is exactly what it is, don't fall for it.

You need to take it to POPLA but don't use any mitigation or talk of broken legs etc it won't make any difference, only technicalities work with them.

Unlikely to ever get in front of a judge but I would bet he would laugh it out of court.

Themadcow

I do get it In their appeal response, they recognise the validity of the ticket I provided, but stipulate that because the ticket expired before departure we are still in breach of contract.

So basically:
1) PCN issued because they didn't believe we had a parking ticket
2) Appeal lodged providing parking ticket (1 min expired)
3) NCP dismiss the appeal, citing that "Whilst I appreciate that you had made payment for parking on the day of contravention, the payment had expired prior to your exit of the car park" also stating that because the notice had been issued "correctly" it can not be cancelled

They do acknowledge it was a valid ticket, but are trying to fine me for 1 minute overdue regardless.

DoaM

Can you post up a copy of the exact wording of their reply please? (Redact any personal details). In full. (Just in case you are mis-reading and have quoted a part of their reply out of context).

We don't disbelieve you - we want to be sure you have the strongest possible base from which to defend this.

Themadcow

Thanks - here is the PCN...



and the appeal rejection...



They have exit photographed at 11:45:37, and ticket shows 11:44 expiry.

Umkomaas

I’d cause them major inconvenience via both complaint and POPLA appeal

1. Complain to the BPA (and, importantly, copy to David Dunford of the DVLA) that NCP can’t seem to make up their minds as to exactly for what and why they are trying to impose this charge on you. As NCP state that you have come to the end of their appeals process and you are none the wiser as to the reason for the charge, you are turning to the BPA to resolve, as you need to know exactly what it is you are appealing against.

Copy all documentation you’ve written/received to the BPA and DVLA.

Complaints to the BPA and DVLA can be emailed to:

aos@britishparking.co.uk

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

or (if posting)

British Parking Association
Stuart House
41-43 Perrymount Road
Haywards Heath
West Sussex
RH16 3BN

and DVLA:

FOI@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

2. Prepare for drafting your POPLA appeal by studying the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 where there are also template appeal paragraphs covering the major winning appeal points. You can do the bulk of the drafting as there’s stuff like ‘Landowner Authority’, ‘Signage’, ‘No Keeper Liability’ (depending on what you said in your initial appeal) and ‘Grace Periods’ which are all pretty generic and apply to most parking charges.

Themadcow

Great, thanks! Will let the board know how I get on...