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The forthcoming budget
Comments
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ilovehouses wrote: »I'm impressed by how the government are airbrushing Cameron/ Osborne out of history - they've had 7 years to dismantle all things Brown.
I’m impressed by how you airbrushed the Lib Dem coalition out of five of those years.0 -
ilovehouses wrote: »I'm impressed by how the government are airbrushing Cameron/ Osborne out of history - they've had 7 years to dismantle all things Brown.
The Labour Blair/Brown Government were still blaming the Tories for everything under the sun long after they'd been in power for 7 years. And there was plenty that they complained about that they never addressed at all during their 13 years in Govt.
Likewise I see Corbyn last week was blaming the Tories for Grenfell & conveniently ignored the 13 years of Labour being in charge, during which many of those decisions on Social Housing were made.0 -
It says the top 10% of households pay 27% of the overall tax take, which is what we're discussing. Read the whole thing instead of cherry picking.
no we are discussing income tax, which is not total tax, total tax includes corporation tax, and north sea oil revenue, which is 100% not relevant to individuals.From my research the top 10% of households earn and spend about 30% of the total. Therefore they pay tax in a lower proportion to what they earn and spend.
WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING EARN AND SPEND, SPEND HAS NO IMPACT ON GOVERNMENT BUDGETS.
THE TOP 1% EARN 12% of the UK TOTAL INCOME AND PAY 27% OF THE UK TOTAL INCOME TAXEarlier you were concerned that relying on the top-10% to pay 27% of the tax was dangerous because they might all move their families abroad, but in fact it is roughly in proportion to what they earn and spend, so they aren't actually paying any more than anyone else relative to what they earn and spend. If anything they are paying slightly less than everyone else.
NO NO NO,
You earn £150,000 from your own business online, you pay £60,000 in tax you spend/save £90,000
10 people earn £15,000 each, they pay £1.5k each (£15,000) in tax and spend/save £135k.
as you can see the lower earners have a higher proportion of their income to spend as they are proportionally taxed less!
If the 1 £150k person moves abroad, as they can due to work flexibility, the government has lost 80% of its income from this group of 11 but still has to provide services to the remaining 10.0 -
ilovehouses wrote: »Sorry, high marginal tax rates are the fault of labour AND the lib dems
Not the Tories because they've hardly had time to sort it out.
It just seems a bit odd that your latest moan is about the convenient way people have forgotten the last seven years of government, whilst at the same forgetting that the tories coalition partner would have prevented any such sorting out.
The question of whether that was actually a good thing is, as you would say, moot.
But still, why let the realities of who actually made up the government get in the way when you just want to make a pathetic attempt at point scoring.0 -
ilovehouses wrote: »If Gordon Brown is to blame for high marginal tax rates successive governments have had plenty of time to sort it out. I won't make excuses for them whatever colour ties they wore.
But you will single out one particular colour tie.0 -
It says the top 10% of households pay 27% of the overall tax take, which is what we're discussing.
No we're not. I pointed out that it is profoundly risky for the state to rely on so few taxpayers for so much of its income, and gave the example of 27% of income tax being raised from 1% of them at 37 times the rate paid by the other 99%.
We don't need your guesses at how much of the income that 1% makes. It's all in the links you were given. The top 1% earns 12% of the money. Being on about £160k gets you into that 1%. As you may have noticed, a salary of £160k will just about buy you the average London house on a highish mortgage multiple so this 1% is not rich.
Chancellors who think this can continue are drinking in the last chance saloon.0 -
The top 1% might pay 27% of the tax but they also have about 27% of all the wealth so that seems fair to me.martinsurrey wrote: »no we are discussing income tax, which is not total tax, total tax includes corporation tax, and north sea oil revenue, which is 100% not relevant to individuals.
WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING EARN AND SPEND, SPEND HAS NO IMPACT ON GOVERNMENT BUDGETS.
THE TOP 1% EARN 12% of the UK TOTAL INCOME AND PAY 27% OF THE UK TOTAL INCOME TAX
NO NO NO,
You earn £150,000 from your own business online, you pay £60,000 in tax you spend/save £90,000
10 people earn £15,000 each, they pay £1.5k each (£15,000) in tax and spend/save £135k.
as you can see the lower earners have a higher proportion of their income to spend as they are proportionally taxed less!
If the 1 £150k person moves abroad, as they can due to work flexibility, the government has lost 80% of its income from this group of 11 but still has to provide services to the remaining 10.
The scare tactic being employed was that we have to be ever so careful not to ask the rich if they can pay anymore tax because if we do they might quit their jobs, sell their businesses, uproot their families, leave all their friends and relatives, spend thousands on flights, visa's, moving costs and go and live in Somalia or somewhere else with low tax rates.
In that context I don't know why you would limit the discussion to income tax because clearly it's the overall amount of tax paid that matters. Tax is paid on both earning and spending.0 -
The scare tactic being employed was that we have to be ever so careful not to ask the rich if they can pay anymore tax because if we do they might quit their jobs, sell their businesses, uproot their families, leave all their friends and relatives, spend thousands on flights, visa's, moving costs and go and live in Somalia or somewhere else with low tax rates.
A ridiculous statement that demonstrates an inherent lack of understanding about how people in any income bracket deal with tax rises.0 -
Replace personal allowance with citizens income and problem solvedThrugelmir wrote: »That's the nature of any benefit. There's a line drawn somewhere. Better off is still better off. Albeit marginally. Getting them into work hopefully means that they'll then progress higher and improve their own earning ability.I think....0 -
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