Tenants late with rent, again.

Guy_Montag

I'm sure I read on Letlink that it can finish on either the last day of the rental period or the first day of the new rental period.

guppy

As you now realise...recorded delivery is a waste of time

No self-respecting professional a******* will accept recorded letters - they know its never going to be good news.

Proof of posting is usually enough, the postal system is generally accepted as reliable. Of course the "by hand" touch often works well too.

Good luck

olly300

guppy wrote: »

As you now realise...recorded delivery is a waste of time

No self-respecting professional a******* will accept recorded letters - they know its never going to be good news.

Proof of posting is not proof of delivery and if you have an a of a tenant who is a convincing liar they will make up a reason why they didn't receive the letter. (After all some landlords' claim not to receive official court letters sent by first class post and are believed.)

It's cheaper (and easier if the person is an awarkard a ) if you have an email address of the person and their postal address to send the letter via email and first class post as no reasonable person will believe you didn't get a message by one of the methods of communication. Alternatively you can always send one copy of the letter by first class post c/o their employer's address.

However sending a letters by courier especially if they are bundled as a small package would definitely work particularly especially if the tenant wasn't given notice about when the next letter may arrive and a different courier was chosen.

franklee

Normally I would agree with the previous posters, that you should serve a section 21 and get the tenants out.

But in your particular case I'm very concerned about this new AST. If you did renew the AST to follow on from the old one that ended in August and did not protect the deposit within 14 days then I think you've shot yourself in the foot.

You offered a new AST, presumably they accepted and then you sent the contract to them? They failed to return a signed contract. But did you sign it? If so then what is to stop them signing it and claim there was a renewal after all? What about the fact there was a verbal agreement to renew or possibly written negotiations agreeing to renew backed up by the unsigned contract? You do not need a written contract to establish an AST.

Do you have written evidence that both the signed contracts were not returned?

The important issue is to establish if the renewal was effective or if the tenants are now on a periodic tenancy. My answer to that is I simply don't know and you should seek advice.

If the tenants realise that you owe 3 x deposit for not protecting the deposit in time IF there was a renewal I'd guess they'd argue tooth and claw that there WAS a renewal!

If they are on a periodic tenancy then, as sooz said, you need to establish what a period is. Hopefully the AST says the rent is payable monthly defining a period as a month and the six months was just paid in advance. I hope you don't have a period of six months which is unlikely but possible.

Post the link the yout post on llz, I can't find it.

franklee

Doozergirl wrote: »

But when does the 20th become the 21st? Surely the assumption is that it falls from midnight of the morning starting 21st to midnight of the evening ending 20th otherwise you're not getting a full month?

The 20th becomes the 21st at one second past midnight.

If the AST just specifies a date and not a date and time a six month AST starting on the 21st February ends at midnight on the 20th August. It is assumed that the tenant is in occupation for all of the 21st and all of the 20th. In practise many people don't wander about in the small hours so the tenant gets the keys a few hours late and probably gives them back a few hours early. I think that matches what you said?

The landlord would ask for possession after 20th August on the S21 should he want the tenant to leave asap.

Doozergirl wrote: »

I can't see what is wrong with it starting at 11am to 11am on the same day of the month as it is still exactly a month, in fact, more clearly exactly a month.

Nothing is wrong with that but IIRC the AST would need to specify that by giving a time as well as a date. I've heard of people doing just this, the tenant isn't diddled out of a few hours that way but I suppose has a tighter deadline to meet.

The landlord would have to be aware of this when dating his section 21 though. I think he would need to ask for possession after the 21st instead of the more usual after 20th, probably :eek: or maybe he would need to ask for possession after 11am on 21st or maybe on 21st ...?! The devil is in the detail

kunekune

Referring to Franklee's point -

Did the original letters with the new AST give a time by which the signed copy was to be returned? I think you need to make it clear that you are no longer offering a new AST, if that hasn't been done already. I agree with Franklee that there is a danger that they could sign it at any time, put a false date on, and then claim the new tenancy (and therefore the obligation to put the deposit into the account) was effective some time ago. Not sure how successful they would be: your actions subsequently make it clear they had not confirmed to you that they had signed or returned it to you, and you had every reason to believe that the new AST had not yet started and you were still on the old periodic tenancy. It would be hard to say you were at fault during this period for not putting the deposit into the protection scheme, so I doubt you would be penalised, but it could still stuff up the serving of the s21 notice, as that is a different issue.

KathrynPenguin

Again thanks all, I'm trying to post on landlordzone as recommended but I have to wait for my account to be activated. The letter I am sending today now says.
"This is a serious matter and your urgentattention is required. Furthermore as you have failed to return the AST contract which I have sent you twice the tenancy has now become a periodic tenancy.
Failure to act promptly may lead to eviction proceedings. If eviction is sought, you may be responsible for additional charges, such as court and solicitors fees, and your credit rating could be affected."
I think that makes my intentions clear and also that I am no longer offering an AST. I still don't quite understand the whole deposit protection thing - surely I had no obligation until the returned the contract, which they have not done.

Dithering_Dad

I know nothing about anything to do with being a landlord, but not knowing about a subject has never prevented me from spouting on about it as if I'm an expert. So....

If this was my property, I would post a letter through the door advising them that I needed access to the property to affect repairs on a certain date. I'd then go into the house and "break" the boiler by removing the circuit board. They would soon get in touch with you to complain about the boiler not working, and then you could sort out their occupancy issues.

Circuit boards are just plugged into the boiler and really easy to remove and then replace once they pay up or leave...

Guy_Montag

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

I know nothing about anything to do with being a landlord, but not knowing about a subject has never prevented me from spouting on about it as if I'm an expert. So....

If this was my property, I would post a letter through the door advising them that I needed access to the property to affect repairs on a certain date. I'd then go into the house and "break" the boiler by removing the circuit board. They would soon get in touch with you to complain about the boiler not working, and then you could sort out their occupancy issues.

Circuit boards are just plugged into the boiler and really easy to remove and then replace once they pay up or leave...

& you would be breaking the law.

If the tenants pursued you, you would certainly be fined & could face a prison term for illegal harassment & eviction.

coal9011

I'm sorry but I''m a little "dim" this morning.

How much rent are you expecting them to pay? (being the amount overdue) 6 months, 2 months or 1 month?

Are you expecting them to make you a payment of 6 months rent again?