TV Licence query

pioneer31

I have scoured the relevant websites but cannot find a definitive answer to my question, which is:

I know that you can own a TV but "not watching" means you don't have to pay, but would either or both of these qualify?

i) it's setup but not switched on
ii) it's boxed away in the spare room/attic

Thanks!:)

Neil_Jones

The TV itself is irrelevant as to whether its setup, packed in a box or lying in pieces in the garage.

You're paying a licence in order to watch TV as its being broadcast on any device in the house. If you want to watch, as I write this, Pointless on BBC One or The Chase on ITV either on the TV or through the iPlayer/ITV Player, you need a licence to do so.

If you only watch catch-up TV or recordings or DVDs or similar things (ie not live TV) then you don't need a licence but expect correspondence every once in a while from TV Licencing.

pioneer31

So, in order for TV licensing to have a case, they need to bang on the door whilst I am actually in the act of watching?

HWW

pioneer31 wrote: »

So, in order for TV licensing to have a case, they need to bang on the door whilst I am actually in the act of watching?

Not just bang the door, but you, silly enough to let them in to see you watching live TV.
No communication, entry, NOT talking to them is the way to go if you don't want to spend £150 a year to watch Government & BBC propaganda.


Keep calm & carry on!

Marvqn1

Neil_Jones wrote: »

If you only watch catch-up TV or recordings or DVDs or similar things (ie not live TV) then you don't need a licence but expect correspondence every once in a while from TV Licencing.

You do need a licence if the catch-up TV is iPlayer.

Cornucopia

pioneer31 wrote: »

I have scoured the relevant websites but cannot find a definitive answer to my question, which is:

I know that you can own a TV but "not watching" means you don't have to pay, but would either or both of these qualify?

i) it's setup but not switched on
ii) it's boxed away in the spare room/attic

Thanks!:)

As noted, the Evasion offence relates to receiving TV broadcasts, and ownership of a TV (or any other equipment) is largely irrelevant.

Reception of broadcasts means:-

- Watching or recording UK TV channels by traditional means (i.e. satellite, cable TV or terrestrial).

- Watching the live internet streaming version of those channels.

- Viewing or downloading TV (except S4C catchup) from BBC iPlayer, but not BBC programs from other platforms like Netflix or Youtube.

If you never do any of those things, you don't need a Licence.



Most TVL prosecutions do not involve people being caught watching TV broadcasts. They mostly revolve around a confession statement captured on a paper form called a TVL178. There is good reason to believe that the process involved is not fully PACE-compliant (as it legally should be).

There's no need to speak with TVL or give them any information, and the best advice is not to do so. If you do speak with them, under no circumstances sign any of their paperwork (even if they make it sound innocuous) as there are cases of people being conned by rogue staff members into unwittingly signing confessions or Licence applications.

pioneer31

I still find all this a bit of a mystery.

It seems that I can have all my equipment plugged in and just swear blind that I don't watch it...or. just go incommunicado.

and if people get fined because they sign a confession, how is that extracted?

I would have thought a much more sensible method would be to see if the person has their TV set up, rather than packed away in the attic.

glentoran99

pioneer31 wrote: »

I still find all this a bit of a mystery.

It seems that I can have all my equipment plugged in and just swear blind that I don't watch it...or. just go incommunicado.

and if people get fined because they sign a confession, how is that extracted?

I would have thought a much more sensible method would be to see if the person has their TV set up, rather than packed away in the attic.

they simply as you to sign something at the door, Without really clarifying what your signing, You don't communicate with them other than, " I don't watch tv go away"

Cornucopia

pioneer31 wrote: »

I still find all this a bit of a mystery.

It seems that I can have all my equipment plugged in and just swear blind that I don't watch it...or. just go incommunicado.

The point is that you can watch it. The Licence is to receive broadcasts, not simply for owning a TV. I have a relatively new LG 43inch HDR 4K Smart TV. I use it to access Netflix, ITV Hub, All4, Demand 5, UKTV player and Youtube, as well as video games and DVDs. None of that requires a TV Licence - that is the law.

and if people get fined because they sign a confession, how is that extracted?

In my experience those who "fall" for the extraction of a confession are generally a little sheepish in explaining exactly how it happened. I imagine that the force of bureaucracy simply overcomes them - the TVL field person says: "this must be completed", and the TVL field person proceeds to complete it. Getting the signature at the end is possibly the trickiest part, and there is an (occasional) cliched deception for that: "sign here, just to say I called".

There are some fairly detailed requirements of PACE regarding such Interviews under Caution. However, the BBC (who operate TV Licensing) have recently told me that they believe that most of PACE does not apply to them. I think they are wrong about that, and they are therefore operating without proper legal compliance. There are other legal issues with their process.

There is an escalation path, if TV Licensing don't get their way, which is for them to apply to a Court for a Search Warrant. This requires reasonable suspicion of TV Licence evasion, and the numbers issued and executed are extremely small (around 2 per week across the entirety of England & Wales, and none in Scotland where the Licensing process works differently).

I would have thought a much more sensible method would be to see if the person has their TV set up, rather than packed away in the attic.

That's as maybe (and it is how the law works in other jurisdictions like Ireland), but here, we are allowed to possess and operate TVs without permission from the State, which seems like a good thing to me.

pioneer31

Cornucopia wrote: »

The point is that you can watch it. The Licence is to receive broadcasts, not simply for owning a TV. I have a relatively new LG 43inch HDR 4K Smart TV. I use it to access Netflix, ITV Hub, All4, Demand 5, UKTV player and Youtube, as well as video games and DVDs. None of that requires a TV Licence - that is the law.


In my experience those who "fall" for the extraction of a confession are generally a little sheepish in explaining exactly how it happened. I imagine that the force of bureaucracy simply overcomes them - the TVL field person says: "this must be completed", and the TVL field person proceeds to complete it. Getting the signature at the end is possibly the trickiest part, and there is an (occasional) cliched deception for that: "sign here, just to say I called".

There are some fairly detailed requirements of PACE regarding such Interviews under Caution. However, the BBC (who operate TV Licensing) have recently told me that they believe that most of PACE does not apply to them. I think they are wrong about that, and they are therefore operating without proper legal compliance. There are other legal issues with their process.

There is an escalation path, if TV Licensing don't get their way, which is for them to apply to a Court for a Search Warrant. This requires reasonable suspicion of TV Licence evasion, and the numbers issued and executed are extremely small (around 2 per week across the entirety of England & Wales, and none in Scotland where the Licensing process works differently).


That's as maybe (and it is how the law works in other jurisdictions like Ireland), but here, we are allowed to possess and operate TVs without permission from the State, which seems like a good thing to me.

Given what I've been told, a search warrant is pointless.

*Knock knock*
*Peep through the curtains, notice that it's an inspector*
*Switch off TV and swear blind you never watch it*
*Will you sign this form*
*No*

Cornucopia

pioneer31 wrote: »

Given what I've been told, a search warrant is pointless.

*Knock knock*
*Peep through the curtains, notice that it's an inspector*
*Switch off TV and swear blind you never watch it*
*Will you sign this form*
*No*

The actual process is effective, and if you've seen any of the videos, they can be a lot more thorough and more traumatic than you suggest.

However, in terms of overall impact on enforcement, the end result is negligible because (a) there are so few of them, and (b) however they are obtaining the necessary reasonable suspicion, it seems to be wildly ineffective, with a large proportion of warrants finding no robust evidence of evasion.

This video is a reasonable example that is made easier to follow because everyone remains calm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QnFwLqCQ24&t=3s

There remain some quite glaring PACE issues and they mention "obstruction" rather too freely, but the overall process is typical and otherwise legally accurate, AIUI.