Problems with landlord- Lodger agreement

layla958

Hi,

Im currently a student and have move out of a property which was a lodger agreement. The landlord was another student who's father had bought her the house. The problem I face is this:

The landlord is greedy and has shown signs of this from the beginning of when we moved in. Throughout the stay of the property we felt like we were stepping on eggshells as there were comments passed around of small damages being taken out of our account, such as wall scratches etc. Anyways, when it came to my last months rent I asked my landlord to take my deposit as my last months rent. He refused at first, until I showed him the contract and then he had to agree. After agreeing he stated that there will then definitely be extra charges to pay. He knew he was going to take money from out deposit before we even moved out.

He sent me an email a few weeks later with an invoice for bills going over the amount we paid, and for shower repairs (which his daughter broke) along with a £300 invoice for a new mattress.
I had only left a tiny stain, the size of my little finger on the mattress which I NEVER thought he was going to even make an issue of. He decided to buy a whole new mattress and is now forcing me to pay. The contract of the lodger agreement is also set up in his favor and makes it seem I'm liable for any kind of damage. Hes not reasoning with me and is threatening to take me to court, I feel like he needs to realise that everyone else cannot pay for what ever decisions he decides to make.
In regards to the shower I offered to pay for the shower repairs myself but instead the landlords dad refused and ended up calling someone else in to fix it. It was actually broken by the landlord and her friends which she invited over, however the landlords dad has decided that the cost of repair will be split amongst everyone instead of taking responsibility for his daughter. He refused my offer to fix it ourselves ( even though i didnt need to as it wasnt my fault). I didnt even get a chance to sort out the mattress myself before he started demanding a total of £386. It feels like he is just doing things his own way and forcing everyone else to pay for it.
I personally feel like this is unreasonable however I dont know what I can actually do as this agreement is favored torwards the landlord and the mattress is part of the inventory.

Guest101

layla958 wrote: »

Hi,

Im currently a student and have move out of a property which was a lodger agreement. The landlord was another student who's father had bought her the house. The problem I face is this:

The landlord is greedy and has shown signs of this from the beginning of when we moved in. Throughout the stay of the property we felt like we were stepping on eggshells as there were comments passed around of small damages being taken out of our account, such as wall scratches etc. - Why were you scratching the wall? Anyways, when it came to my last months rent I asked my landlord to take my deposit as my last months rent. He refused at first, until I showed him the contract and then he had to agree. - no he didn't. After agreeing he stated that there will then definitely be extra charges to pay. He knew he was going to take money from out deposit before we even moved out. - well that could be true. if you damaged it, why didn't you repair it?

He sent me an email a few weeks later with an invoice for bills going over the amount we paid, and for shower repairs (which his daughter broke) along with a £300 invoice for a new mattress.
I had only left a tiny stain, the size of my little finger on the mattress which I NEVER thought he was going to even make an issue of. - why didn't you use a protector? He decided to buy a whole new mattress and is now forcing me to pay. - well he's asking you to pay... The contract of the lodger agreement is also set up in his favor and makes it seem I'm liable for any kind of damage. - well ofcourse, you are an excluded occupier. Hes not reasoning with me and is threatening to take me to court - good. That's not a threat, that's an independent body set up to sort out disputes , I feel like he needs to realise that everyone else cannot pay for what ever decisions he decides to make, I offered to pay for the shower repairs by myself but instead he refused and ended up calling someone else in to fix it. I didnt even get a chance to sort out the mattress myself before he started demanding a total of £386. - You did, you lived there.
I personally feel like this is unreasonable however I dont know what I can actually do as this agreement is favored torwards the landlord.

You wait to go to court, present your argument and let a judge decide?

G_M

layla958 wrote: »

...... Anyways, when it came to my last months rent I asked my landlord to take my deposit as my last months rent. He refused at first, until I showed him the contract and then he had to agree.
So he now holds no deposit, correct?
Remember, 'possession is 9/10ths of the law' and you are in possession of the disputed money now, not him.

After agreeing he stated that there will then definitely be extra charges to pay. He knew he was going to take money from out deposit before we even moved out.
Did he put this in writing?
Though even so, if damage was evident at that time then it's fair enough of him to warn you.

He sent me an email a few weeks later with an invoice for bills going over the amount we paid,
??? What aount you'd aid? I thought the deposit was used for the final rent and you then left - ie you paid nothing for damage? Correct?

Please also specfy what was claimed for on the invoice.

and for shower repairs (which his daughter broke) along with a £300 invoice for a new mattress.
f his daughter, not you, broke the shower, then you refuse to pay!
Was the new matress a like-for-like? Was 'betterment' taken into consideration?

I had only left a tiny stain, the size of my little finger on the mattress which I NEVER thought he was going to even make an issue of.
Not sure if that counts as fair wear & tear on a mattress. Opinions anyone?

He decided to buy a whole new mattress and is now forcing me to pay. See Qs above. 'Forcing you' how? What I think you mean is asking/climing. You can refuse.

The contract of the lodger agreement is also set up in his favor and makes it seem I'm liable for any kind of damage.
Please quote the contract.
It's normal for a contract to specify liability for damage.

Hes not reasoning with me and is threatening to take me to court,
That is is right.

If you feel his claims are unjustified, you enter a defence and argue in court. It is for the LL to prove his case.

....... I dont know what I can actually do as this agreement is favored torwards the landlord.

Wait for the court papers and then write your defence.

I suspect he will struggle to prove his case, though he may win some of his claims.

edit: Guest101 - snap but too late. You win.

layla958

Hi ! thanks for replying!
1) He doesnt have a deposit from me and so I will have to pay from my pocket now.
2)He wrote in an email that there will definitely be extra costs to pay this is before he even inspected the house. He is clearly doing this out of spite because he could have got the mattress professionally cleaned for £30 instead of paying for a new mattress.
3) We paid £50 a month for bills but he stated in the contracted that bills will be looked at in the end to see if anything is owed, it turned out that there was £56.15 owed to him after recalculating bills. ( BTW we didnt even have access to the heating , it was remotely controlled only by him through his mobile)
4) Because no body owned up to the shower he decided to spread the cost.Which is unfair because his daughter knows I wasnt at home.
5) I have tried to reason with him about the mattress but he is still asking for all of the money and saying that its either I pay or go to court. So its hardly a negotiation.
6) Im worried that the court will just look at the agreement and rule in landlords favor
because of the contract stating that I should return inventory items how they were in the first place. But this is more than that , as i said before he is clearly making his own decisions and not giving us much option in terms of resolving them ourselves.

I have never been to court and so I dont know how to go about proving my case

saajan_12

Stop worrying about how greedy/one sided it felt.. it’s to be expected as you are a lodger compared to an owner occupier, but also irrelevant to deposit deductions. It also doesn’t matter what work the LL has already done.. they should get/keep money for the actual damages, whether this is equal/more/less than what they actually spent. You could / should have fixed things while you were living there, but after you’ve moved out the LL has no obligation to let you organize repairs, they can hire someone and argue that is the cost of rectifying it.

- mattress stain: if this is a localised stain from a liquid, likely damage and not fair wear & tear. The LL is entitled to the value of a mattress reduced by the expected useful life of the one you damaged, or the cost of cleaning if this is possible.

- shower: if you didn’t damage this, refuse to pay. The LL will find it hard to prove you did, but courts work on the balance of probabilities.. are there any texts / emails indicating who broke it from the time it happened.

Out of interest as it’s happened now, but could you quote the terms which gave you the right to use the deposit in lieu of last months’ rent, as this is highly uncommon.

00ec25

your LL was his daughter, not him

he has no claim over you whatsoever

his daughter can sue you, but she'll need to do so in her own name and her father has nothing to do with it at all

Guest101

layla958 wrote: »

Hi ! thanks for replying!
1) He doesnt have a deposit from me and so I will have to pay from my pocket now. - Well possibly. you don't HAVE to pay yet
2)He wrote in an email that there will definitely be extra costs to pay this is before he even inspected the house. - well he lived there, so why would he need to inspect? He is clearly doing this out of spite because he could have got the mattress professionally cleaned for £30 instead of paying for a new mattress. - well that's your defence then
3) We paid £50 a month for bills but he stated in the contracted that bills will be looked at in the end to see if anything is owed, it turned out that there was £56.15 owed to him after recalculating bills. ( BTW we didnt even have access to the heating , it was remotely controlled only by him through his mobile) - But there was heating?
4) Because no body owned up to the shower he decided to spread the cost.Which is unfair because his daughter knows I wasnt at home. - that's your defence then
5) I have tried to reason with him about the mattress but he is still asking for all of the money and saying that its either I pay or go to court. So its hardly a negotiation. - No that is negotiation. Why are you scared of going to court?
6) Im worried that the court will just look at the agreement and rule in landlords favour - That's not how it works
because of the contract stating that I should return inventory items how they were in the first place. - Less wear and tear, that is standard even if not written But this is more than that , as i said before he is clearly making his own decisions and not giving us much option in terms of resolving them ourselves. - You had your chance when you were there

I have never been to court and so I dont know how to go about proving my case

By providing written evidence, either in form of statement from yourself, or witnesses. OR documents in terms of payments

steampowered

I have never been to court and so I dont know how to go about proving my case

The process is broadly as follows:

1) The landlord will need to provide a 'particulars of claim' specifying what he is claiming for.

2) You then have an opportunity to provide a 'defence'. The defence must clearly state which parts of the claim are admitted, which parts are denied and which parts the landlord is required to prove.

3) The case is allocated. As you are an individual this will be to your nearest county court.

4) The court will make an order requiring both parties to exchange the evidence they intend to rely on 14 days or so before the hearing. This could take the form of emails, photographs, receipts and so on. It could also take the form of a detailed witness statement prepared by you.

5) There is then a short hearing in front of a judge at the local county court. The judge will usually make a decision there and then.

Guest101

G_M wrote: »

Wait for the court papers and then write your defence.

I suspect he will struggle to prove his case, though he may win some of his claims.

edit: Guest101 - snap but too late. You win.

atleast we both said the same thing in essence

layla958

saajan_12 wrote: »

Stop worrying about how greedy/one sided it felt.. it’s to be expected as you are a lodger compared to an owner occupier, but also irrelevant to deposit deductions. It also doesn’t matter what work the LL has already done.. they should get/keep money for the actual damages, whether this is equal/more/less than what they actually spent. You could / should have fixed things while you were living there, but after you’ve moved out the LL has no obligation to let you organize repairs, they can hire someone and argue that is the cost of rectifying it.

- mattress stain: if this is a localised stain from a liquid, likely damage and not fair wear & tear. The LL is entitled to the value of a mattress reduced by the expected useful life of the one you damaged, or the cost of cleaning if this is possible.

- shower: if you didn’t damage this, refuse to pay. The LL will find it hard to prove you did, but courts work on the balance of probabilities.. are there any texts / emails indicating who broke it from the time it happened.

Out of interest as it’s happened now, but could you quote the terms which gave you the right to use the deposit in lieu of last months’ rent, as this is highly uncommon.

Hi Sajaan_12,
This is the part of contract you are asking about ( i think ! )
29. The Deposit is to be held in an account by the Landlord for the Term as security against the Lodger's failure to pay Rent and other sums due under the Agreement or non-performance of the obligations within this Agreement. The Deposit will be returned to the Lodger at the end of the Term less any outstanding Rent or other sums or reasonable deductions properly made by the Landlord to cover any reasonable costs incurred with cleaning the Room or in connection with damage to the Property or items on the Inventory (fair wear and tear excepted).

Also are you saying that he is fully right to charge me for a new mattress , I mean if I do take this to court will I have no leg to stand on at all?

steampowered

If you receive any further correspondence from the landlord, I would simply and concisely tell the landlord in writing your reasons for denying the claim, and that any court claim will be vigorously defended.

Nothing more to do unless he actually issues a claim. There is a good chance he won't bother.

And if he does issues a claim, it is up to him as the claimant to prove his case.