Benefit fraud?

LindaR1965

First time posted so hope this is in the right place. If not I apologise.

My 20 year old daughter is in receipt of pip and esa. She has ms. She received a letter from dwp to go in for an interview regarding her benefits. We assumed it was just the usual, you still have ms, no cure found yet, you're just the same or worse. She went herself as it was no big deal. Turns out they wanted to ask questions regarding her committing benefit fraud. She opened an isa and her and her boyfriend have been putting money in it for a holiday. It's sitting at £4000. She has a saving account with 28p in it. Her current account has a couple of hundred. Do they have a right to access her accounts without her knowledge? About 2 years ago before she was in receipt of esa I put £28,000 in her account. This was part of an inheritance she received 13 years previously. She has no idea of this inheritance. She bought a brand new car, paid for driving lessons, insurance for car, went on holiday, bought clothes, make up etc, crashed car so bought another. Money was soon gone. She had a further £40,000 in a bond. When she applied for esa and pip on the phone they asked about any money she had, she said she had none as she did not know about it. I was there so luckily I took phone and explained about the bonds. The advisor told me it was ok as they would not affect her benefits. (Hopefully they still have a recording of this). Now 2 years later they are investigating her. The letter had nothing on it about an investigation or that it would be under caution. I have contacted a solicitor, we meet them in Tues. I am so very worried they find her guilty. It was an honest mistake. She has the money to pay them back. Will they send her to prison because of the amount involved. She thinks it's about £18,000. Could be more. She can't do community service due to her ms. I am worried sick. The stress of this could trigger a relapse for her as she's terrified. Anyone any advice or been through anything similar?

benidorm59

Did the letter come from Compliance. If it did then it has been down graded from fraud this means it wont go to court or have a penalty attached just a normal overpayment that may incur a £50 civil penalty. They do keep records of calls and can listen to them. The money will not effect her DLA, its just the ESA I am assuming she is on IB ESA, any capital over 16k will render her not entitled. They can and do access bank accounts, But if you can prove that you told them and declared the money when making the claim then it will be all official error and not recoverable from you.

poppy12345

LindaR1965 wrote: »

First time posted so hope this is in the right place. If not I apologise.

My 20 year old daughter is in receipt of pip and esa. She has ms. She received a letter from dwp to go in for an interview regarding her benefits. We assumed it was just the usual, you still have ms, no cure found yet, you're just the same or worse. She went herself as it was no big deal. Turns out they wanted to ask questions regarding her committing benefit fraud. She opened an isa and her and her boyfriend have been putting money in it for a holiday. It's sitting at £4000. She has a saving account with 28p in it. Her current account has a couple of hundred. Do they have a right to access her accounts without her knowledge? About 2 years ago before she was in receipt of esa I put £28,000 in her account. This was part of an inheritance she received 13 years previously. She has no idea of this inheritance. She bought a brand new car, paid for driving lessons, insurance for car, went on holiday, bought clothes, make up etc, crashed car so bought another. Money was soon gone. She had a further £40,000 in a bond. When she applied for esa and pip on the phone they asked about any money she had, she said she had none as she did not know about it. I was there so luckily I took phone and explained about the bonds. The advisor told me it was ok as they would not affect her benefits. (Hopefully they still have a recording of this). Now 2 years later they are investigating her. The letter had nothing on it about an investigation or that it would be under caution. I have contacted a solicitor, we meet them in Tues. I am so very worried they find her guilty. It was an honest mistake. She has the money to pay them back. Will they send her to prison because of the amount involved. She thinks it's about £18,000. Could be more. She can't do community service due to her ms. I am worried sick. The stress of this could trigger a relapse for her as she's terrified. Anyone any advice or been through anything similar?

I'm guessing she's on Income related ESA? if so and they suspect benefit fraud then yes they have every right to access any of her accounts. Any money over £16,000 and she wouldn't have been entitled to Income related benefits, including any housing benefit if she recieves this. I can't help with the bonds question, sorry. So she thinks she's claimed £18,000 in benefits when she wasn't entitled? PIP isn't means tested so she would recieve this regardless of any savings she has.

LindaR1965

Thank you fot replies.
Letter came from compliance officer. She is in the support group for esa. Do you think this means that if she pays back the overpayment that will be it? No court, no jail?

LindaR1965

They also mentioned something about she had less than £2000 over the allowed £6000. Don't know what this means, neither does daughter. She was so distraught at this point, she wasn't fully taking everything in. This makes me think they still don't know about the £40,000 in bonds. My first reaction was to go to them , show bank statements, tell them everything and look for clemency as it was not a deliberate lie or hiding money. Lawyer advised on phone not to help them. He will advise more at meeting in Tues.

poppy12345

How long after recieving that £28,000 did she start claiming Income Related ESA?

benidorm59

No it will be dealt with by Compliance they will interview her and send the file to the BDC to raise the overpayment. The over payment will be calculated and a letter sent. You wont have to pay It back at once and it can be paid back weekly from her DLA. Its up to your self if you pay it back all in one go. She would not be able to claim ESA until her capital went under 16k again but if she went out and just spent this money then they would class it as deprivation and still assume it. But if you declare the money whilst making the claim then you need to tell them this and they can check for you

LindaR1965

Think it was about a year after the money was put in her account. The officer did try to suggest something about deliberately spending it so she could claim. This really was not the case.

poppy12345

LindaR1965 wrote: »

Think it was about a year after the money was put in her account. The officer did try to suggest something about deliberately spending it so she could claim. This really was not the case.

Ah yes this would be called deprivation of capitol. She will need to provide reciepts for what she spent the money on. Buying a brand new car, and going on holiday would be deprivation of capital to allow herself to claim Income Related benefits. As for those bonds counting as capital then i think they do but i'm not 100% sure. Someone else will come along and answer that i'm sure.

xylophone

You mention a will.

Was your daughter left a bequest in bare trust or discretionary trust?


If the bequest was held in a discretionary trust, then your daughter would have had no absolute right to any distribution.

However, the moment a distribution was made to her personal account, then that cash would have been hers absolutely and would have needed to be declared if she was seeking means tested benefits.

If you advised the DWP that the bonds were being held in a discretionary trust from which your daughter could only benefit at the discretion of the Trustees, this could explain the answer you received.

Topcat1982

Why did they say the bonds won't affect her benefits? Does she not have access to them?