Renting in shared accommodation

00ec25

slenderkitten wrote: »

I just read the below website, there are only two of us in this flat.

http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_rights/houses_in_multiple_occupation_hmos

What is an HMO?



I have been given a notice to quit, but environmental health has already visited and viewed my tenency agreement and thought it was a BS contract. I know the notice is invalid anyway spoken to shelter and citizens advice as there is no prescribed information and whatever other relevant documentation has not been served , landlord did not give AT5 at start of tenenacy.

WRONG - that is the housing law definition. Look up "HMO and council tax" on your council's website

here is Glasgow's for example:
https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=17145

"Are there times when the owner is always liable?

In some situations the owner rather than the tenants of a property is always liable for council tax. This applies to: owners of care homes, owners of properties occupied by religious communities, owners of properties occupied by staff in domestic service, properties occupied by serving Ministers of Religion, and owners of properties used to house asylum seekers.

More commonly are those properties classed as houses in multiple occupation (HMO).

What is a HMO?

There are a number of different definitions of what is a HMO, such as for environmental health or housing issues, as well as council tax. These definitions are:

A property that has been built or adapted for tenants or licensees to live in, who are not living as a single household,
OR
A property lived in by a person or persons, each of whom has a tenancy or licence to live in only part of the property or who pays rent or a fee for only part of the property.

It is perhaps worth noting that there are other definitions of HMO in use, for the purposes of fire safety and environmental health issues. We are not concerned with those here and please note that our definition refers only to the matter of council tax liability.

00ec25

slenderkitten wrote: »

I have been given a notice to quit, but environmental health has already visited and viewed my tenency agreement and thought it was a BS contract. I know the notice is invalid anyway spoken to shelter and citizens advice as there is no prescribed information and whatever other relevant documentation has not been served , landlord did not give AT5 at start of tenenacy.

so that indicates very strongly that your LL has no idea at all of the law and almost certainly therefore has no idea (or has deliberately chosen to evade) his liability for the council tax as he is the owner of a COUNCIL TAX HMO

if you are unwilling to fight your LL that is a different matter

00ec25

iammumtoone wrote: »

I dont want to confuse the OP anymore but in this situation should they also be paying utilities direct to the company's? As it appears they are doing so.

It still seems wrong to me, there is a lot of trust needed between both house holds who have no hand in choosing each other that the person not named on the bill(s) will pay their half.

I think there is something different about how water rates are dealt with in Scotland?

But as far as gas, electricity and phones are concerned, no, there is no statute law that says who is liable for them in the context of rental property. The LL is free to write a contract that says he will pay for them or the tenant will pay for them. It is then a contractual matter between LL and tenant

slenderkitten

iammumtoone wrote: »

Do you have friends/parents that can help you? Show them this thread especially post 22 and see if they can explain it better. I do appreciate it is hard for some people to follow explanations when written down.

Then get yourself the the Citizen Advise Bureau (or whatever the Scottish equivalent is) they will help and advise you and help with writing letters to get this sorted if need be.

It is very likely that your rent will go up to due to this, but you wont have to pay the council tax bills anymore.

The tenancy agreement doesn't state anything about increasing the rent.

slenderkitten

00ec25 wrote: »

so that indicates very strongly that your LL has no idea at all of the law and almost certainly therefore has no idea (or has deliberately chosen to evade) his liability for the council tax as he is the owner of a COUNCIL TAX HMO

if you are unwilling to fight your LL that is a different matter

i dont know about that but i can only go by what the environmental health say that it is not hmo i got a letter from them, the MP requested for them to inspect it.

water is included with council tax you cannot pay for that separately.

Unless i am missing something here, this property wont be classed as HMO.

iammumtoone

slenderkitten wrote: »

Unless i am missing something here, this property wont be classed as HMO.

Yes you are missing the fact that the property doesn't need to be a HMO in EH eyes for the landlord to be liable for the council tax.

slenderkitten

Dorian1958 wrote: »

So OP, put us out of our misery:

1. Do you have a Short Assured Tenancy agreement (it will say this at the top of the document)?
2. If so, what exactly does it say about who is responsible for council tax and liabilities?
3. If not, what is your agreement (if any) titled?
4. Before the newish tenant moved in, how were council tax and utilities paid for?
Your answers should enable people to advise you otherwise we are going off on tangents and have incomplete information with which to advise.

1. it says the word short assured tenency but no at5 was issued
2. myself
3. It is Contracted
4. myself and previous tenant.

00ec25

slenderkitten wrote: »

i dont know about that but i can only go by what the environmental health say that it is not hmo i got a letter from them, the MP requested for them to inspect it.

water is included with council tax you cannot pay for that separately.

Unless i am missing something here, this property wont be classed as HMO.

yes you are missing something, the ability to understand that the EH definition is NOT THE SAME AS the council tax definition as easily shown on the quote from Glasgow's website

you can have any number of EH letters but they have no relevance at all in respect of COUNCIL TAX

00ec25

lets start again, what is it you want as the outcome of this situation?

- no AT5 was issued so it is not a shorthold tenancy, it is an assured tenancy, read the instructions: "If you have not received an AT5 notice stating that you have a short assured tenancy or your tenancy is for less than six months, you will probably have an assured tenancy." http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_rights/renting_from_a_private_landlord/short_assured_tenancies

- you have it appears successfully defended against an eviction, so you want to stay?

- the EH dept has confirmed in writing it is not an HMO for the purposes of HOUSING LAW so they cannot force the LL to make whatever changes you were after in respect of the condition of the property or whatever question you asked your MP to challenge them over

- The EH dept has not said anything at all about COUNCIL TAX as it is not their responsibility to do so. that responsibility lies with the council tax dept of your council

name your council then we can look at its website and tell you what to do next ....

getmore4less

Might not go down well with the LL if you go to the council explain the situation, if they agree it is a CT HMO they should refund the CT you have paid(no idea how far back they will go).

Then the LL will get the bill and have to sort it out.