Renting in shared accommodation

00ec25

slenderkitten wrote: »

I am not sure of any of this the environmental health said it won't be classed as HMO. It's just a regular flat landlord decides to rent the two bedrooms individually I have tenancy agreement for my bedroom only. There were locks I the bedroom doors but landlord took one off but not the other I'm not sure why that is?

ok lets go back to basics...

1. Statute Law is passed by parliament and therefore applies across the whole of Scotland

2. statute law can cover some definitions which, because they are in statute law, cannot be changed by anyone.

3. The defintion of an HMO is contained in 2 totally different bits of statute law. The first refers to tax law and relates to council tax liability, the second refers to housing law and relates to whether a council can enforce rules about the standard of the accommodation. I can't be bothered to search scottish legislation, so this will do https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/housing/council-tax/council-tax-s/

4. the EH dept has nothing to do with tax, it enforces only accommodation standards

5. Statute law defines a property as an HMO for council tax purposes if it is occupied by two or more households who share basic facilities. In such a case statute law says the property owner (in your case your LL I assume) is the only person liable to pay CT.
Please read the section "who has to pay" very carefully as it is key to understanding your situation - your LL is liable for paying the CT becuase hehas let the property to 2 households who share facilities (bathroom, kitchen) thus making it a council tax HMO as defined in statute. If he has not being doing so to date then, as another posters says, it is not "right", and you should complain to the COUNCIL TAX DEPT at your council. Not the EH dept.

6 Your tenancy agreement may (or may not, we haven't read it) explain who has to "pay" council tax but it cannot make you liable to pay it direct to the council as STATUTE LAW always overrides contract law. Yes the tenancy agreement can make you pay extra money to the LL, which the LL then pays to the council to settle his CT liability, but you, as a mere occupant of a property let to two or more households, should not, under any circumstances, receive a council tax bill in your own name as you are not liable for it

slenderkitten wrote: »

Just to make clear the council tax has never been included with rent tenants pay that themselves.

please explain exactly (quoting word for word is best) what it says in your tenancy agreement about council tax .....

slenderkitten

I have been here well over one year paying council tax myself and whoever else is here. But this new tenant is where I have questions on if I am the only liable party, my tenancy is being questioned as landlord did not give me AT5. Environmental health has determined it's not HMO.

slenderkitten

I know I am liable for the council tax bill it's in my tenancy. I am query it regarding the student and if I have to pay more increasing my liability

iammumtoone

slenderkitten wrote: »

I know I am liable for the council tax bill it's in my tenancy. I am query it regarding the student and if I have to pay more increasing my liability

No it seems you are not liable for council tax direcly please read the post by 00ec25 again.

Your tenancy cannot override what the law states.

I suggest you make an appointment with the CAB maybe talking with some one face to face will help you more, If would be a good idea to take a print out of post 22 the CAB will check the information is correct (I have no reason to believe it isn't) and advise further,

slenderkitten

Sorry but I still do not under this I have been paying my share if the council tax directly to the council the entire time I have been here.

I only pay rent to the landlord. Environmental health said they do not class it as HMO just a shared flat it is in my tenancy agreement that I pay council tax and all relevant other bills. So I am baffled how your saying above that iand I am not liable.

Hmo is applicable to three different household is what I am told but he said it's borderline hmo at the moment.

00ec25

slenderkitten wrote: »

I have been here well over one year paying council tax myself and whoever else is here. But this new tenant is where I have questions on if I am the only liable party, my tenancy is being questioned as landlord did not give me AT5.

of course your tenancy is being questioned, the council needs to find out if you are renting a room individually or the whole property jointly. As it appears you rent one bedroom and the other tenant rents the 2nd bedroom and you both share the rest of the flat that makes it a council tax HMO and means the LL is liable.

your history to date just confirms that everything to date is fundamentally wrong if the property is a CT HMO based on your tenancy agreement - no wonder it is missing....
if you do not want to deal with this issue then the answer to your question is you can claim 25% single person discount as you are the only chargeable occupant. Council tax is worked out as 50% relates to the property itself and 50% relates to the fact there are 2 occupants as the default. In your case a student is a disregard, so the property liability is 75% and you are the only one who is paying it since you won't deal with the apparent problem that actually it is the LL who is liable, not you.

if you have not been given an AT5 then as I understand Scottish law, your tenancy is is a full blown assured one, not a shorthold one and the LL has seriously shot himself in the foot

slenderkitten wrote: »

Environmental health has determined it's not HMO.

irrelevant. EH does not deal with TAX

slenderkitten

I just read the below website, there are only two of us in this flat.

http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_rights/houses_in_multiple_occupation_hmos

What is an HMO?

An HMO is a property that is shared by three or more tenants who aren't members of the same family. HMO landlords must have a licence from the council. This ensures that the property is managed properly and meets certain safety standards. An HMO license is separate from the tenancy agreement you will have with your landlord, so some of your renting rights rely on this - check your tenancy type if you're not sure what kind of tenancy agreement you have.

I have been given a notice to quit, but environmental health has already visited and viewed my tenency agreement and thought it was a BS contract. I know the notice is invalid anyway spoken to shelter and citizens advice as there is no prescribed information and whatever other relevant documentation has not been served , landlord did not give AT5 at start of tenenacy.

iammumtoone

slenderkitten wrote: »

Sorry but I still do not under this I have been paying my share if the council tax directly to the council the entire time I have been here.

Just because you have been paying it doesn't mean that you should have been - Its appears you should never have been paying it direct to the council

I only pay rent to the landlord. And out of that rent he should be paying the council tax, Environmental health said they do not class it as HMO just a shared flat irrelevant what EH class it as it, its what the council class it as that is relevant is in my tenancy agreement that I pay council tax just because it is in you agreement doesn't mean it is enforceable, the law overrides this and all relevant other bills. So I am baffled how your saying above that iand I am not liable. Your LL has been braking the law making you pay this

Hmo is applicable to three different household is what I am told but he said it's borderline hmo at the moment.I would forget about the fact whether it an a HMO or not. What it IS is two separate households sharing one building, that means the LL should be liable for the council tax

Do you have friends/parents that can help you? Show them this thread especially post 22 and see if they can explain it better. I do appreciate it is hard for some people to follow explanations when written down.

Then get yourself the the Citizen Advise Bureau (or whatever the Scottish equivalent is) they will help and advise you and help with writing letters to get this sorted if need be.

It is very likely that your rent will go up to due to this, but you wont have to pay the council tax bills anymore.

iammumtoone

I dont want to confuse the OP anymore but in this situation should they also be paying utilities direct to the company's? As it appears they are doing so.

It still seems wrong to me, there is a lot of trust needed between both house holds who have no hand in choosing each other that the person not named on the bill(s) will pay their half.

00ec25

slenderkitten wrote: »

Sorry but I still do not under this I have been paying my share if the council tax directly to the council the entire time I have been here.

I only pay rent to the landlord. Environmental health said they do not class it as HMO just a shared flat it is in my tenancy agreement that I pay council tax and all relevant other bills. So I am baffled how your saying above that iand I am not liable.

you are baffled because you are not listening to what is being said. What is in your contract cannot override statute law. Your current circumstances are precisely why there is a difference in tax law relating to HMO. The LL is the only liable person, and it is therefore his problem how he gets the money to pay the bill when there is someone in the property who is a disregard. If it were not so then your exact situation as you have now would prevail, the student won't pay "his share" because he does not have to, so who will pick up the shortfall? That is exactly why the liability is on the LL, not on the tenants of a COUNCIL TAX HMO as it is then very clear who has to pay the full amount.

slenderkitten wrote: »

Hmo is applicable to three different household is what I am told but he said it's borderline hmo at the moment.

one last time...

EH deals with HOUSING LAW they do not deal with COUNCIL TAX law. The 3 person rule applies to the HOUSING law definition of HMO, it does not apply to the council tax law definition, as that has its own definition which requires only 2 households.