Banks and sharing data

Teessideexpat

Hi, new to the forum just after some advice.

In dispute with Lloyds at the moment. I've been a customer for over 20 years and they've generally been ok, however it's caught my attention recently that in order to get any savings account or service off them, the terms and conditions dictate that the "may share your details with other members within the llloyds banking group"
So:
1. "May" would indicate they don't need to,so why make it a condition?
2. Lloyds banking group is pretty non specific...appreciate Halifax is in there and Bank of Scotland Does the average consumer know the full list of who this entails? I haven't found it!
3. They don't say why....it's nothing to do with statutory requirement e.g. Fraud prevention. I've opted out of marketing. When I've contacted them and asked for detailed information and processes they can't or won't give it
4. There is no option to opt out. If you sign up for the product you have to agree to the terms...which appear to benefit only the bank and not the customer.

So essentially by signing up with them, it would appear that you have to surrender the rights to your data to be shared with non specified companies within the group. For reasons they won't specify...bit like a blank cheque with your personal information. Of course they do say it's "covered by data protection" I would argue if they can't tell you how it's been used, is it?

I've escalated a complaint all the way to the top and essentially their answer is "well without sharing your data we can't have a relationship with you"

I am a bit anal about my data, once you've had your identity stolen you're basically screwed so I always take precautions.....always get unsolicited inbound calls to verify themselves before I even confirm my name etc. But to have to submit personal data to organisations within a group that you have no direct dealings with seems to be an unreasonable way of doing business

I intend taking this further to the ombudsman.

Does anyone have any experience or is anyone aware of these apparently unreasonable procedures?

Browntoa

its not unreasonable


Bank may set up a joint venture with insurer B to offer car insurance , they will share data if you take up insurance .


Bank may set up venture with utility company to offer own brand electricity and Gas , they will share data


its not Carte Blanc sharing of data , its on a "need to" basis if required

EarthBoy

Teessideexpat wrote: »

1. "May" would indicate they don't need to,so why make it a condition?

"May" means they can if they decide they want to. They're including it in case they decide to do so.

Teessideexpat wrote: »

2. Lloyds banking group is pretty non specific...appreciate Halifax is in there and Bank of Scotland Does the average consumer know the full list of who this entails? I haven't found it!

The "average" consumer is unlikely to care, but you can find out all the Lloyds Banking Group brands from the group's website:

http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/

Teessideexpat wrote: »

3. They don't say why....it's nothing to do with statutory requirement e.g. Fraud prevention. I've opted out of marketing. When I've contacted them and asked for detailed information and processes they can't or won't give it

It's so that they don't have to chase you for unpaid debt with one of the group's companies, whilst having available funds in a different group company. They can offset one against the other. Other banks have similar conditions.

Teessideexpat wrote: »

4. There is no option to opt out. If you sign up for the product you have to agree to the terms...which appear to benefit only the bank and not the customer.

Of course you can't opt out, why do you think you should be able to? If you don't like the terms and conditions, take your business elsewhere.

Teessideexpat wrote: »

So essentially by signing up with them, it would appear that you have to surrender the rights to your data to be shared with non specified companies within the group.

They won't specify the individual companies/brands because these may change from time to time if they sell some of the companies or take over others.

Teessideexpat wrote: »

I've escalated a complaint all the way to the top and essentially their answer is "well without sharing your data we can't have a relationship with you"

You're effectively telling them that you don't agree to the terms and conditions, so don't be surprised if they close your account(s).

Teessideexpat wrote: »

But to have to submit personal data to organisations within a group that you have no direct dealings with seems to be an unreasonable way of doing business

Lots of companies have similar conditions.

Teessideexpat wrote: »

I intend taking this further to the ombudsman.

You'll be wasting your time.

KJSmith

If you've been a customer for over 20 years then you've already agreed to this data sharing, regardless of whether you're opening a new savings account.

Their privacy notice (found on their website) lists clear reasons for doing this: https://www.lloydsbank.com/privacy.asp#collapse2-1475867889416

PeacefulWaters

I intend taking this further to the ombudsman

Please don't waste their time.

There's somebody with a worthwhile complaint sat behind you in the queue.

jonesMUFCforever

Have you checked to see if other banks do this as part of their terms and conditions?

Buzby

KJSmith wrote: »

If you've been a customer for over 20 years then you've already agreed to this data sharing, regardless of whether you're opening a new savings account.

Their privacy notice (found on their website) lists clear reasons for doing this: https://www.lloydsbank.com/privacy.asp#collapse2-1475867889416

No you haven't! The bank needs explicit permission from the customer before they can run fast and loose with your data. I've been with RBS for 30 years, pre dating their T&C's free-for-all. It was made clear if I opened any new facility, the terms would apply not just for the new account, but for everything. So I didn't. It doesn't show up on any report. Of course it isn't simply passing on details within the group, but any whitelist data they wish to pass on to Credit Reference Agencies too.

Well done for spotting the change - they still need express permission to do so, and if your account was opened before 1996 you'll be protected from external disclosure.

surreysaver

At least the banks tell you this. The NHS doesn't, despite the law requiring it to, and NHS staffs' professional codes of conduct requiring them to.

Teessideexpat

Thanks for the replies,
browntoa, so what you've said is once you've signed up, then the banks can enter into a partnership with any organisation they may wish to have a commercial deal with and share your details? That doesnt sound like a fair use of your data? That essentially means that they do have cart Blanche to share with who ever they wish..and you don't have a say in it?

Earth Boy: you clearly think there's no issue with this? That once you've signed up they can and will use the data as they wish? And I would go so far as to say no one should have the temerity to disagree with this? Just because they can doesn't make it right does it! That's the crux of the issue!

KJ smith, that's actually not correct...I asked them to provide information that I agreed to this...as they said they could via a twitter exchange, when I took it up in the local branch. No surprises when the deputy manager said that wouldn't be possible as the account was opened in 1987!... now granted they may update terms and conditions ad it could well be hidden in the small print. Does that make it right?

Peaceful waters: try keep the comments constructive for everyone's benefit!

Jones MUFC: did look at first direct as they're customer service rating is good, however they seem to do the same thing, with the same limited amount of explanation. However I've spoken to nationwide and will probably move there as they said they don't...so it could be a bank thing?

Buzby: thanks for that, do you have a reference for that by any chance?

Surrey saver: I remember getting a letter off the NHS a number of years ago asking if I wanted to be on their database. I refused, if anyone is going to lose your data or it's going to be insecure to be on a government contract. It would be interesting to find out if they've slipped it in somewhere.

It's not my intent to get adversarial about this. The banks may think they have good business reasons for this practice. However to either slip it in in the small print in a T and C change or if you take out a new product allowing them to share that data with who ever they choose whilst not giving an opt out for the customer.....whom must also bear their own responsibility for their own data protection seems somewhat incongruous?

If it's a bank practice to do this sort of thing with a talk it or leave it attitude, maybe it's time to move accounts for everyone with a degree of concern about their data protection, to an organisation who doesn't feel the need to share it?

But if someone wishes to write a blank cheque on their personal data....be my guest....I don't!!

Browntoa

You apply for a new credit card , they share your data with experian as part of their process (as do BT and other utilities when you change to them )

You make an insurance claim they share your data with other insurers to prevent fraud

This is the same for all financial institutions so good luck finding one that doesn't

You are seeing far too much in this data sharing but as someone else said don't waste the ombudsman time on this pointless exercise.

Teessideexpat

Applying for credit cards, credit, utilities and the need for an ID and or credit check to prevent fraud, insurance companies to prevent fraud.....absolutely get that!

This is none of the above