British Airways Avios or Virgin Atlantic Flying Club?

neilio

I've been a "frequent" flyer of Virgin Atlantic for nearly ten years, but I'm thinking of switching my loyalty to British Airways. Looking for some advice.

My long haul airline of choice to date has been Virgin Atlantic. I fly to the USA (either San Francisco, Los Angeles or New York) on average once per year. A few years ago I also flew Virgin to Australia twice, before they cut that route. I have the black MBNA Virgin Atlantic Amex credit card with counterpart Visa and have accumulated thousands of miles. Everything I purchase, I use that card to earn miles. I also, until earlier this year, was a freelance contractor for four years, so I paid all of my taxes to HMRC on the Visa, earning thousands more miles. I have already redeemed my miles for a free Upper Class return flight to California, and I still have nearly 270,000 miles on my account. My husband does the same as me, although not being a contractor himself, has not accumulated as many miles as me and is on 180,000 miles.

My biggest frustration with Virgin is inability to earn miles on European flights. Another potential frustration is that they have cut certain long haul routes that I know I intend to use in the near future, such as to Japan, Hong Kong and Australia again. I had flown EasyJet in Europe but one of my favourite destinations, Barcelona, means EasyJet uses that abysmal "module" at Barcelona's Terminal 2! Last year when I went to Barcelona, I used British Airways for the first time (so I could avoid that horrible terminal) and started an Executive Club/Avios account.

This year I've been several long weekends away in Europe, and have flown BA every time, earning miles as I go.

My husband and I recently decided to spend Christmas and New Year in California. I enquired with Virgin about using our thousands of miles to get free flights. It was a long shot and didn't expect anything to be available, and I was right, but when on the phone to Virgin, they talked me through several options of money+miles or just money, etc, and eventually I just booked some premium economy seats paying just money, with a 24 hour cooling off period if I wanted to get a refund. After paying, I did a quick search on BA and found the equivalent tickets for £400 less per person! I decided to cancel the Virgin tickets and book BA instead.

It got me thinking that there are always more options with BA and that perhaps I should switch my loyalty and earning of miles. I applied for the black American Express BA credit card and was accepted for it. I've also applied for and been accepted for the Lloyds Avios Amex credit card with counterpart MasterCard, which would be good for 0% foreign transactions when abroad whilst still earning Avios. At present, I have no way of earning Virgin miles on foreign transactions (I have a separate card I use abroad currently that's 0% foreign transactions).

I have my final corporation tax payment to HMRC due in November, the last one since ending contracting. The bill is for £11,000. I was intending to use the Lloyds Avios MasterCard, but then realised you only earn 1.25 miles for every £5 spent, as opposed to 1 mile for every £1 spent if I used to Virgin Visa. It got me thinking again, am I doing the right thing moving my earning from Virgin to BA at all. I can either earn 11,000 Virgin miles or 2,750 Avios on that tax payment! (Unless someone can tell me if there is any way at all to pay with HMRC with Amex somehow!)

I will always have those hundreds of thousands of Virgin miles to use (before they expire) but do I continue with Virgin after that or not? My husband has decided it's no longer his priority to earn frequent flyer miles when spending money and is cancelling his Virgin MBNA credit card, so I'm basically free to decide what our airline of choice will be.

The earning rate of miles is clearly different between the two. What I can't find anywhere online is how many miles it costs to fly on Virgin versus BA, specifically on long haul to the USA. Is it roughly the same? If so, then Virgin is clearly the better choice. When I try and search for this online, all I can find is which credit cards are better, but that's not what I'm trying to find out.

My summary of pros and cons:

Virgin Atlantic Flying Club / black MBNA Amex/Visa:
Pros:
2 miles earned for every £1 spend on Amex
1 mile earned for every £1 spend on Visa
Cons:
No way of earning miles on foreign transactions (when using a 0% foreign transaction credit card)
No way of earning miles on European flights
Fewer long haul destinations

British Airways Avios / American Express BA / Lloyds Avios Amex/MasterCard
Pros:
Earn miles on flights in Europe
Earn miles on more long haul flights
Earn miles on 0% foreign transactions
Cons:
1.25 miles earned for every £5 spend on MasterCard is very low considering I need to use a non-Amex card to make a large payment to HMRC in the near future

Thanks for reading all of this. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

richardw

BA short haul flights from LCY are great.
BA are getting more new long haul aircraft soon.
AA is getting much better with PE and new aircraft.
BA's new lounge at Gatwick is great with good views.
Virgin is owned by AF-KLM and Delta and will eventually be a full sky team member.

PeacefulWaters

It's possible to earn BA silver status without setting foot on a BA plane.

budgetflyer

You have enough Virgin miles for now, however 11K versus 2K for your tax bill, its got to be Virgin. I would save them for Transatlantic
Avios short haul and Long Haul when heading East give you more flexibility, and you can n move them between BAEC, Iberia, Avios and Aer Lingus as well as redeeming against all the One World carriers.
The BA Black card is good as you get your 2 for 1 voucher at 10K spend so you only need half the Avios for a couple.
Not so sure about the Loyds one though
You may be better with a hilton or ICH credit card. Headforpoints has a comparison of all your possible options
Christmas and other peak dates are still a problem with Avios too, though you can "part pay with Avios" cash tickets

theonlywayisup

Having made the same move about 2 years ago and in similar circumstances (I own a couple of companies) I can say the move to BA / Oneworld has been long overdue.

The biggest benefit for us apart from Europe now being on the menu, is the fact there is something better than UC. UC/CW are on a par but with the Amex 2-4-1 we fly F more often.

We did a few TP runs early on to get status with BA. Once you have it, it is relatively easy to keep. Flyertalk and Headforpoints are both worth subscribing to for tips and help.

Have a read of http://www.headforpoints.com/best-uk-avios-airline-hotel-credit-cards/ for credit card info. We both have the BA Prem Plus and I have the Platinum for one of my businesses.

I find earning Avios is much easier than VS Miles. We have several thousand VS Miles and keep them active by using Shops Away for a small transaction to renew the expiry. We have enough for full redemptions in UC and will book when availability presents itself just so we can finally empty the accounts.

Good luck in what you decide, you won't regret moving to Oneworld. There is so much more flexibility, availability and choice.

blindman

neilio wrote: »

I've been a "frequent" flyer of Virgin Atlantic for nearly ten years, but I'm thinking of switching my loyalty to British Airways. Looking for some advice.


Thanks for reading all of this. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Look at Headforpoints re the merits of both schemes.

Also possibly Flyertalk.

theonlyway is up beat me to it

IMHO you can stick with both as has been suggested.

AVIOS gives good flexibility with other airlines and routes. Inter country routes can have zero or very little taxes so can be a bargain.

Virgin are good for TATL

PeacefulWaters

UC/CW are on a par

I have never flown Virgin Upper Class. But I've never read a review comparing to BA Club World as "on a par". BA business class tends to take a pasting.

neilio

Thanks for your helpful responses. There are a few acronyms there I'm not sure about but I get the jist

So it sounds like I'm doing the right thing in focusing on Avios.

To clarify a few points a bit better and/or summarise my understanding...

I know that you earn slightly less Avios (1.5 per £) than Virgin miles (2 per £) on their respective Amex cards, but there is much greater earning potential with Avios after having looked on the BA Amex site and their Gate 365 retail partners.

I had been concerned about not being able to find out how many miles it costs to redeem flights on either of the airlines and my concern that (assuming it's the same on both airlines) Virgin would be the best option because of the higher earning rate when spending. But, the 2-for-1 BA voucher instantly makes BA the more attractive option!

I'll keep my banked Virgin miles for as long as I can and put that tax payment on my Virgin MBNA Visa, then redeem them all on some Virgin flights when I need to. I won't be keeping my MBNA credit card account because I can't justify paying multiple annual fees on these cards. It's up for renewal in February so I have a few months to keep it open. Is there any way of earning Virgin miles to keep the Flying Club account active without credit card spend or actual flying?

Regarding the Lloyds Avios Amex and MasterCard, my only reason for opening this account is to have the 0% foreign transaction fee when spending abroad whilst still earning Avios. I have no intention of using the Lloyds Amex in the UK as I'll be using the BA Premium Plus Amex; I'm not a high enough spender to reap the benefits of bonus Avios from both cards in the first few months! I'll only use the Lloyds MasterCard for any retailers than don't accept Amex.

Also... I flew on BA from London City for the first time last week. Love that airport! Definitely will use that option again.

PeacefulWaters

BA tool:
https://www.britishairways.com/travel/avios-calculator/public/en_gb?eId=199006

Headforpoints chart:
http://www.headforpoints.com/2015/07/27/british-airways-avios-redemption-pricing-by-route/

neilio

I feel a bit stupid for never, after all these years, realising that Shops Away existed! It's the same as BA Gate 365!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I register the same credit card for in-store purchasing with both Shops Away and Gate 365, and I use that card in a participating retailer, that means I can earn miles on both airlines on the same purchase. Is that correct?

phatbear

neilio wrote: »

I have my final corporation tax payment to HMRC due in November, the last one since ending contracting. The bill is for £11,000. I was intending to use the Lloyds Avios MasterCard, but then realised you only earn 1.25 miles for every £5 spent, as opposed to 1 mile for every £1 spent if I used to Virgin Visa. It got me thinking again, am I doing the right thing moving my earning from Virgin to BA at all. I can either earn 11,000 Virgin miles or 2,750 Avios on that tax payment! (Unless someone can tell me if there is any way at all to pay with HMRC with Amex somehow!)

You seem to over look the benefit of spending more than £7000 on your lloyds avios card which is you will instantly get an upgrade voucher for your next ba flight, which is worth far more than 8250 miles, if used on long haul.

I cover the bases with miles due to virgin often being cheaper, miles wise, and ba covering more destinations.

So for example next year we are off to asia but virgin only fly to a couple of places in china and hong kong. So we are using ba, with our upgrade voucher, thus only having to pay pe points for a buis seat, to fly into bangkok and then after a jaunt around myanmar, vietnam and cambodia we then fly back from hkg with virgin in upper, which will only cost us £35 in taxes and fuel etc.