New Kitchen fitting disaster looking for advice.

ukstreets

Hi

I recently purchased a new kitchen in February 2017. I found a company advertising on the internet and they came out to do surveys. We enjoyed the whole process with the designer who visited us at our house a total of three times and after going through the plans during his second visit to our house we paid a deposit of £4000 on a Santander credit card using his card machine. This was followed up by a bank transfer to the kitchen company of just over £13500 a week before the work would start.

Work started one week later and our kitchen was completely gutted.
Issue 1:
Our problems started when the kitchen units were delivered as they were not the ones that we had ordered and of a much cheaper quality. I immediately called the company and told them that the kitchen doors and drawer fronts were not the ones we had ordered and that I would not accept what had been shipped. I was told that they had shipped what I had ordered. As the road I live on has the same name as the style and quality of doors and drawers we wanted we knew we had not made a mistake. I told the company that I did not want the kitchen fitted and that it could all be taken back, this was a very difficult thing to do as I had just an empty room now. I was told that they would look into getting the doors and drawers replaced and so I compromised on having the carcasses of the units and appliances installed.
Issue 2:
The units were not fitted well, plumbing of the sink has no ptrap u-bend so the room fills with the smell of drains, the 5 ring gas hob was not fitted by a registered gas fitter so was fitted illegally and also was positioned poorly so that we cannot use all the rings on the hob without the risk of pots or pans falling to the floor. We have electrical sockets and light sockets hanging from walls and not safe.

Currently I have no drawers or doors fitted to the units, the gas hob is unsafe to use and I am very worried about the electrical sockets.

I called the company and was given "we are looking into it" responses with no progress so I wrote to them in April and then again in May with no responses.

The kitchen companies website says that if things go wrong by paying a deposit on a credit card my consumer rights are protected under Section 75 and even link to MoneySavingExpert and one of Martin's articles on Section 75. With this in mind in July I wrote to Santander and explained my situation and that I wished to claim under Section 75.

Santander have declined my claim as they say my payment went through paypal and so there is a break in the link between them and the kitchen company. I appealed this decision as there is no way that I could know paypal was in the chain because I was handed a plain card reader in my home. I would understand their decision if I had logged into the paypal website and sent money to the company but all I did was use the plain card reader that I was presented with like I am at restaurants and shops.

I am really lost now and looking for advice, should I go to the ombudsman or is that a lost cause? Should I go to trading standards? Do I have to face a legal battle with the kitchen company?

lincroft1710

What's the name of the company?

Warwick_Hunt

You gave the salesman your credit card, he used a machine and it debited your PayPal account?

LABMAN

Warwick_Hunt wrote: »

You gave the salesman your credit card, he used a machine and it debited your PayPal account?

I suspect the credit card payment went through the kitchen fitting company's PayPal account.

eddddy

So it sounds like the Kitchen company used a 'Paypal Here' card reader.

Based on these news stories, it seems that MBNA and Barclaycard initially rejected s75 claims where 'Paypal Here' was used, but eventually realised that they were wrong to do so. So perhaps you should push Santander harder:

MBNA:

With the help of the Which? Money Helpline, Mr Jeffrey complained to the FOS. It found the deposits were paid to the supplier directly, through a PayPal Here device (a card reader), which kept the debit-creditor-supplier link intact. MBNA was ordered to refund him more than £35,000.

MBNA told us this was the first time it had been approached with a claim regarding PayPal Here, and there was ‘some uncertainty as a result’, but it now understands this doesn’t break the debtor-creditor-supplier chain. It apologised for the inconvenience and paid the claim in full.

Link: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/07/section-75-loophole-exposed/

Barclaycard:

I pressed Barclaycard for a better answer and it referred the matter to its legal team. It took months to get a proper reply. Then it was a matter of Barclaycard backing down. It now agreed that a claim in relation to a transaction made with a PayPal Here device could fall within the scope of Section 75.

Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/jessicainvestigates/11258422/PayPal-loophole-allows-Barclaycard-to-refuse-credit-card-refund.html

unholyangel

Paypal....they don't always break the chain btw. I'll try explain as best I can.

In order for s75 to apply, there needs to be a debtor > creditor > supplier agreement.

Now sometimes when using paypal, this chain can be broken as you effectively use your credit card to pay money into your paypal account and then use that balance to pay the company. You basically bought £x amount of paypal funds with your credit card rather than paying for the goods.

However, if paypal act as nothing more than a merchant acquirer for the merchant, that should be covered. This would be where the money was paid directly to the merchant (even if it was paid into their paypal account, its really no different to paying it into their natwest account).

Basically paypals role isn't always the same. It depends on the individual steps taken but if you're saying it was a card terminal and you never logged onto paypal, imo theres a good chance they were just acting as an acquirer and don't break the chain.


Ask santander to reconsider, file a complaint at the financial ombudsman (and appeal if initially rejected). Worst case scenario you might need to go to court and name both the company & santander as defendants.

ukstreets

Thank you for the quick responses. You have brightened my morning. I gave my credit card to the kitchen fitter he put it into a card reader and I entered my pin code, I did not log into paypal at all. My card statement showed a pp_ before the kitchen fitters companies name.

The two news articles appear to have used exactly the same method of payment as myself. I am very disappointed with Santander as it must be aware of these card readers and how they work. I should not have to explain to them the mechanics of a card reader transaction in order to protect my consumer rights having used their card in good faith, especially when they have never warned me as a customer that my rights could be at risk in certain situations.

photome

Who is the kitchen company, although I understand you may not want to name until you get it sorted.

Would be good to name them at some point though

ukstreets

I don't want to name the company at this time as I don't want to undermine any future action I take. I will name the company in the future as they are worthy of a TV bodge job and charge more investigation show.

IAmWales

I'm guessing Wren. If it is then you'll find lots of other complaints about them.

ukstreets

No it is not Wren. The company had a lot of positive reviews which gave us confidence but when I looked deeper it appears the positive reviews are all bogus and are intended to hide bad reviews.