After just winning a POPLA!

DD1A

lets hope on this one, thanks all for your time an patients for guiding once again and hopefully this will be lesson learnt and final time! Il keep you posted

DD1A

I have just received a response from popla, I tried to open ecp response but it was a load of scrabbled code nothing that even made sense.

Logged out and tried again, now I can’t even see a link to view their pdf... 7 days left what should I do? TIA

Coupon-mad

Try a different device and different browser. If no luck, ring POPLA to report the issue tomorrow and to insist that your 7 days to respond to the 'evidence' is extended.

DD1A

i have managed to see the pdf from ecp evidence as i brought my laptop home from work today.
i did email them to request the 7 days to be starting from today but this may not be agreed so im going to get to the evidence.

they have put quite a weighty response but anyone can clearly see that the state of the place at the time of the event did not look like it does in their evidence.

They go on about it does not require a ticket displayed in this car park but then show pay & display car park signs
They have a sign mounted on the back of the ticket machines/ tarrif t&c sign which cannot even be seen from within the carpark which makes me laugh as its facing the exit by the bin
which is leading to the way out of the carpark so it is not even welcoming anyone. I will post the pictures up shortly after.
Also thier evidence states the costings upto 32 minutes is 30 pence, what is actually printed on the sign is upto 20 minutes is 30 pence.
the signange is also stating in busy periods find a space to buy a ticket, if the carpark was full how can people purchase a ticket to park in the carpark even though you have entered
to search and driven off to another site.

its clear from my evidence photos that the site is concealed behind the chip shop and the high contruction walls making the missleading sign on the entrance hard to see which states
P
Pay & Display
Camera Controlled
Terms and conditons apply
See signage in car park
for full details

This is clearly leading you in to then be captured by anpr to the search for the sign which is not clear and on the exit of the carpark.

They also are forcing that I am the driver as no driver details were provided only a keeper.


Please find enclosed the evidence pack:
1. (B) Case Summary and Rules/Conditionss
2. (C) Copy of Parking Charge Notice ******* Date – 06/08/2017 Time – 19:51
3. (D) Registered Keeper Details and Liability Trail
4. (E i) Original representation received from *******
5. (E ii) ECP Notice of Rejection
6. (G) ECP response to the POPLA appeal logged by ****
7. (F ) Signage Location Plan and images of Car Park

1. Case Summary and Rule/Conditions

This location is managed by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology which
takes a picture of the vehicle entering and exiting the site, these pictures are timed and
therefore the duration of the stay can be calculated. All vehicle registration numbers are then
matched against the data produced by the various means of paying for parking and a list of
registration numbers where no payment has been made or where the motorist has stayed
longer than the period paid is produced. After requesting vehicle keeper details from the
DVLA, a Notice to keeper is sent to the keepers of the vehicles on this list. As a consequence
at ANPR locations there will be no PCN issued to the windscreen neither will there be
photographic evidence of the windscreen supplied in operator evidence packs.


Parking Charge Notice ********** was issued to vehicle ******* on the 06/08/2017 at the Wish
Street - Rye car park for breach of terms and conditions D no valid pay and display/permit was
purchased -- please note we do not require the pay and display ticket to be displayed at this car
park

This site operates on an automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) in conjunction with
various payment options- 2 machines
The drivers needs to purchase a pay and display ticket at the various 2 pay and display
machines and display their valid P&D ticket
However – please note that as this is ANPR we will not be able to supply an image of the
drivers windscreen with either a expired P&D or no P&D
ANPR camera’s will take an image of the vehicle on entry and exit – if the vehicle has not
paid or has not paid sufficient funds a parking charge notice will be issued once the VRM has
been matched with any/all possible payments

Any notes left on the windscreen of the vehicle by the driver will not be seen or read as the car
park is camera controlled

The Wish Street - Rye car park operates an ANPR + P&D camera controlled operation with the
following parking tariff applicable

Charges Apply 24 hour’s day Monday to Sunday (Including Bank Holidays)
Friday to Wednesday
Up to 32 minutes £0.30
Up to 1 hour £1.20
Up to 2 hours £2.20
Up to 4 hours £4.00
Up to 24 hours £5.00
Evening (18:00 to 23:59 hours) £1.20
Night (18.00 to 10.00 hours) £3.20

Thursday
Up to 32 minutes £0.30
Up to 1 hour £1.40
Up to 2 hours £2.40
Up to 4 hours £5.00
Up to 24 hours £6.00
Evening (18:00 to 23:59 hours) £1.20
Night (18.00 to 10.00 hours) £3.20

No concessions to disabled badge holder

An official appeal representation was received on the 24/08/2017 from ***** stating the
signage fails the large lettering test.

Euro Car Parks responded to ****** that the car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate
Recognition (ANPR). Cameras capture an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay on site.

When purchasing a pay and display ticket, you must enter the correct vehicle registration number (VRM) and this information is directed to the camera system. I can confirm that no pay and display ticket matching your VRM was purchased at the time of the terms and conditions. The signage is clear, a valid pay and display ticket must be purchased for the full duration of your stay on the car park. I can confirm the parking charge notice was issued correctly and remains payable.
With regards to your comments on not leaving your vehicle I can confirm that whilst you are using the facilities on the car park; you will need to pay for your parking. Whether you left the vehicle or not is irrelevant as you were using the car parks facilities.

Euro Car Parks can confirm that vehicle: **** entered the car park at 19:36 and exited at 19:51
– a total duration of 15 minutes without purchasing a valid pay and display ticket to cover the full duration of the vehicle parked on site.

3. Registered Keeper details and Liability Trail

Parking Charge Notice (PCN) ******* was issued on the 06/08/2017. As the car park is camera
controlled the vehicle details were forwarded to the DVLA to obtain the registered keepers details.

The DVLA had provided the following details as the registered keeper;

*******
****

****** then appealed the PCN and did not provide the name of the driver on the day in
question and therefore the liability remains with ******, the registered keeper of the vehicle.

The parking charge notice (section 2) clearly advises the registered keeper/ hirer to provide the name and serviceable address of the driver within 28 days of the date on the parking charge notice.

Our PCN (Parking Charge Notice) is the first communication with the registered keeper – this is referred to as the Notice to Keeper or Notice to Owner
The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by both the BPA and the IPC and we have confirmation that our PCN (NTK/NTO) and has been approved as compliant with POFA
The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by Gladstones Solicitors who specialise in assisting
private car park operators – legal advice and pre legal advice with regards signage and
adhering to POFA and both code of practice

Please be advised once the registered keeper has been sent the PCN (NTK/NTO) if there is no response, payment, appeal, serviceable address of the driver – ECP process a Notice To Keeper –
this is a “reminder letter” and sent in reference to the PCN (NTK/NTO) that has not been responded to.

If we are in receipt of a serviceable address of the driver – the PCN (NTK/NTO) is re-issued

If the registered keeper is in receipt of the PCN (NTK/NTO) and has passed to the driver and the driver appeals – we will respond to the appeal strictly following the code and ensure any/all
communication is sent to the driver (we would not at this stage re-issue the PCN)

We have been advised that the above is standard practice for all private car park operators in regards to PCN (NTK/NTO) issued on Automatic Number Plate Recognition car parks


6. ECP response to POPLA appeal logged by **********

This location is managed by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology which
takes a picture of the vehicle entering and exiting the site, these pictures are timed and
therefore the duration of the stay can be calculated. All vehicle registration numbers are then
matched against the data produced by the various means of paying for parking and a list of
registration numbers where no payment has been made or where the motorist has stayed
longer than the period paid is produced. After requesting vehicle keeper details from the
DVLA, a Notice to keeper is sent to the keepers of the vehicles on this list. As a consequence
at ANPR locations there will be no PCN issued to the windscreen neither will there be
photographic evidence of the windscreen supplied in operator evidence packs.

Parking Charge Notice ******* was issued to vehicle ******* for breach of terms and
conditions no valid pay and display/permit was purchased onsite at the Wish Street - Rye car park.

This car park operates a 24 hour ANPR + P&D operation therefore all vehicles are required to
purchase a valid ticket for the full duration of stay within the car park.

******* has appealed to POPLA stating the following;
- Landowner authority
- Non POFA compliant
- Signage not clear

Euro Car Parks would like to respond to the points raised with the following:

Section 18.3 of the British Parking Association’s (BPA) code of practice explains that signs
“must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to
see, read and understand. Signage on site is clear, when parking on private land it is the
driver’s responsibility to read the signage displayed and parked accordance with the terms
and conditions as stated. Euro Car Parks have provided photographic evidence showing that
the appellant remained at the site for 15 minutes (Figure 1)

The signage clearly states the terms and conditions of parking, all drivers are required to
purchase a valid pay and display ticket for the duration of their stay. Euro Car Parks can
confirm that the signage on site clearly dispalys the tariff at West Street Car Park – Newbury
(Figure 2)

Signage on site is clear, when parking on private land it is the driver’s responsibility to read
the signage displayed and parked accordance with the rules and regulations as stated

The signage clearly states the rules and regulations of parking, all drivers are required to
purchcase a valid pay and display ticket payment for the duration of their stay.

The contract (signage) clearly states the extra charges are that the driver will incur and have
to pay if they decide to break the contract terms − for example, by parking longer than the
time paid for or exceeding the maximum time limit applicable.

Signage is visble when entering and inside of the car park and when entering private land it
would be the driver’s responsibility to read the rules and regulations and adhere to them.

A pay and display payment is required for the full duration of the stay on site

The car park in question is on private land and upon entering such land vehicles are subject
to the rules and regulations of parking as shown on the signage. This signage quite clearly
states that if your vehicle is in breach of the rules and regulations of the car park then a
parking charge notice (PCN) will be issued.

On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure
that your vehicle has been correctly parked. Any vehicles found not adhering to the signage
will be issued with a parking charge notice (PCN).

As previously advised the car park is camera controlled and any notes/ pay and display ticket
displayed on the dashboard will not be seen.

With regards to your comments on not leaving your vehicle I can confirm that whilst you are
using the facilities on the car park; you will need to pay for your parking. Whether you left the
vehicle or not is irrelevant as you were using the car parks facilities.

An appropriate grace period is given to drivers on site to allow drivers to purchase a ticket and
then leave site – we obviously do not expect drivers to purchase a ticket as they drive in
C1 MB

According to BPA Code of Practise 13.4 – car park operators should allow the driver a
reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended; before
enforcement action is taken. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted; the
grace period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes. I can
confirm that Euro Car Parks have given ******* the suitable grace period of 10 minutes
and was issued a Parking Charge Notice.

Figure 3 is the payment transaction report and there are no matches for the vehicle
*******
With regards to ******* comments on not leaving the vehicle: I can confirm that whilst
you are using the facilities on the car park; you will need to pay for your parking. Whether you
left the vehicle or not is irrelevant as you were using the car parks facilities.

We acknowledge the fact that ******* child felt ill and that is why she parked in the car
park, however, a pay and display ticket still needed to be purchased

Euro Car Parks can confirm that the notice has been issued under contract law – the signage
on site is clear and when parking on private land it is the responsibility of the driver to read
aforementioned signage and park in accordance with the T&CS displayed.

Figure 4 show that ECP are the land owners of this site.

Figure 5 highlights that our PCN is POFA compliant

By parking on site ******* has accepted the terms and conditions as displayed on the signage
and a contract is in place between ******* and ECP that has been breached by *******
by failing to purchase a display a valid ticket to cover the entire duration of stay.

The signage on site is clear and as the driver it is the driver’s responsibility to check and adhere to the terms of parking. ******* was parked at the car park for 15 minutes without purchasing a pay and display ticket for the full duration of stay on site. The vehicle registration ******* entered the car park at 19:36 and exited at 19:51.

KeithP

Just one point:

You were parked in Wish Street, Rye, is that right?

Then how can this be relevant:

Euro Car Parks can confirm that the signage on site clearly dispalys the tariff at West Street Car Park – Newbury
(Figure 2)

What is the point of a sign in a car park in Rye displaying the tariff of a car park over one hundred miles away?

Is the rest of their submission equally flawed?

DD1A

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DD1A

KeithP wrote: »

Just one point:

You were parked in Wish Street, Rye, is that right?

Then how can this be relevant:


What is the point of a sign in a car park in Rye displaying the tariff of a car park over one hundred miles away?

Is the rest of their submission equally flawed?

bang on point there well done i completely missed that one

DD1A

By the looks of it I may have done a stupid mistake and submitted an early stage appeal with a lot of the points missed and a slightly different storyline. I complained to popla that I cannot view ecp appeal to comments against. They know about this fault and are now submitting it via email and re issuing 7 days again which can only be replied to via online portal within 24 hours or after this reply to the email (online only gives you 2000 characters).

I asked about sending my latest version of appeal which has more points that need to be brought to their attanetion but they said on submission I agreed to t&c and what was submitted is final and cannot be altered or extra added.

If I reply via email and add the points I missed you think they would take it to consideration?

DD1A

I may actually be wrong and may not have made a mistake as I have been through all my right ups and there is nothing in them mentioning anything about a child being ill, I remember asking CM about this but was advised to avoid which I did as non of my mock ups have anything with this info.

Is there a way of finding out what was initially submitted?

Ecp also think that my name is a she which is hilarious

Umkomaas

You can use more than 2,000 characters by typing your rebuttal into a Word document, convert to a .pdf file, then attach it to an email to POPLA.

A couple of important points to note:

1. You cannot introduce new appeal points or evidence. Your appeal has been made, you are now just commenting on what the PPC has responded to the appeal.

2. Your rebuttal should be succinct and to-the-point, it’s not an opportunity to either ramble or rant. Less can certainly be more!