Question on bus lanes and white lines

BeenThroughItAll

NBLondon wrote: »

I gather (from my biking brother-in-law) that it varies around the country.

As ridiculous as it may seem, it varies by town and sometimes even IN the same town. There are several bus lanes near me which I can use on my motorcycle, and several others which I cannot.

Car_54

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

As ridiculous as it may seem, it varies by town and sometimes even IN the same town.

Why not, provided they are signed clearly?

BeenThroughItAll

[quote=[Deleted User];73005291]Why not, provided they are signed clearly?[/QUOTE]



Because consistency is good, and makes administration easier?

Car_54

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

Because consistency is good, and makes administration easier?

Is it? Ralph Waldo Emerson said "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

Oscar Wilde said "Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative."

and Aldous Huxley "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead"

BeenThroughItAll

[quote=[Deleted User];73005750]Is it? Ralph Waldo Emerson said "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

Oscar Wilde said "Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative."

and Aldous Huxley "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead" [/QUOTE]



So they had opinions, as do I. They differ.

SouthLondonUser

IMHO consistency is good as it limits confusion.

Don’t know about other cities, but, if I understand correctly, here in London certain A roads are managed by TFL, whereas the other roads are managed by the local councils. A 4-mile journey can easily take you through 3 boroughs, which means 4 entities managing those roads (3 councils + TFL).

TFL ran a trial on opening bus lanes to motorcycles a while back; the cycle lobbies tried, but failed, to push back against this, however the data collected by TFL didn’t support the cyclists’ argument that it was more dangerous for cyclists, so TFL’s bus lanes are now open to motorcycles. It’s a shame TFL didn’t collect data in a similar fashion on the impact of the segregated cycle superhighways (which are almost empty outside of rush hour, while the other lanes are not), before deciding to spend even more money on building more such cycle lanes, but that’s a separate point.

One of my main gripes is that many signs indicating the rules of the bus lanes are often hidden, sometimes by trees (and that’s the council’s/TFL’s fault, IMHO), or by double-decker buses, and here I’m not sure what could realistically be done. So there are situations when you are legally riding in a bus lane, then after the next junction you can no longer do so, but you don’t even realise because the sign is hidden by a big bus that’s stopped in traffic and covers it. Or vice versa, you don’t realise you can enter the bus lane after the next junction because the sign is hidden.

If you wanted to be particularly cynical, you might even think that some of this confusion is intentional, because it causes motorists to be caught by cameras and fined – even when the sign was hidden by a bus.

I very much doubt Ralph Waldo, Oscar Wilde or Aldous Huxley had the potential advantages (what are they? Someone please enlighten me) of situations like the one I have just described in mind. @Car54, even if they were signed clearly, which in London they often aren’t, I fail to see the rationale behind this inconsistency. Would you agree with having urban speed limits that change at every junction “as long as they are signed clearly”? Surely the road and traffic conditions do not change radically after every block to warrant a different speed limit after every junction?

These decisions should be based on an assessment of the pros and cons, not on the tantrums of the cycle lobby that doesn’t want bikers in the bus lanes. Incidentally, bicycles in a bus lane can and do cause delays to many buses (which, let’s remember is public transport!) – motorcycles don’t.

SouthLondonUser

[quote=[Deleted User];73003263]Which rule do you think you would be breaking by crossing a sold white line?[/QUOTE]

Common sense would tell me none, but I have learnt that common sense and motoring rules don't always go hand in hand!
The thing is, I couldn't really find on the highway code what a single solid white line like in a bus lane means; I imagined that what isn't explicitly forbidden is allowed (within reason!) but I wanted to ask to confirm.

glentoran99

sillygoose wrote: »

I regularly cross the lines.

I usually get dirty looks from other drivers as I have worked out that 90% of the population don't know that bus lanes only operate as such during the times shown on the plate at the beginning, the rest of the time being just lanes for all to use - I get looks like I am trying to jump other cars illegally. frustrating.

SHH don't tell them, it gets me into work half an hour quicker

Car_54

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

If you wanted to be particularly cynical, you might even think that some of this confusion is intentional, because it causes motorists to be caught by cameras and fined – even when the sign was hidden by a bus.

If that was the intention, it was singularly unsuccessful. At least 90% of drivers refuse to go in to non-operational bus lanes even when the signs are clear and unambiguous.

SouthLondonUser

Car drivers, maybe. With motorcycles it's different: many enter, possibly in good faith, bus lanes which are supposedly closed to bikes.