Premier Park - Brixham

Coupon-mad

Brixham is also a known cash cow for this nasty ex-clamper firm.

Sounds like (I would argue) that it took about 15 minutes of driving round then parking then paying, at the start, due to the time of year and the inevitable queuing, then 8 mins approx at the end, to queue and leave after paid-for time. Both of which are reasonable, given the facts.

And that the driver was unaware that, rather than the usual expectation of going by the times on the PDT, they had in fact been timed from the moment the car had entered and started the merry dance of finding a space. No signs made that clear; even if a camera icon was shown this merely suggests a secure CCTV system in a car park and does not inform a driver about how the ANPR camera data would be used, or that they must count their time from 15 minutes before they even managed to park. If they had known this they would have not parked in this cash-cow of a car park. A reasonable person understands that a parking tariff is for the time PARKED.

Anyway that's for POPLA stage, along with the other usual arguments.

There are two defined grace periods and they can be longer than 10 minutes, based on evidence such as how big or busy the car park is and the difficulty in finding a space, the queues, etc. and even the time taken to re-join the road at the end if it's a main road with traffic lights further down, such that a driver queuing to leave the car park has no option but to sit and wait (which is not parking).

It started with Councils being told that 10 minutes had to be allowed after expiry of a paid-for ticket, then the BPA followed:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/drivers-to-get-10-minute-grace-period-after-parking-ticket-expire-a6674626.html

Also, regarding the time on arrival, which is certainly a separate period of time/grace, the BPA carried out 'research' about the time taken merely to look for a space, averaging six minutes (never mind the added time needed to then walk to a machine, queue to pay, then read the machine instructions and get the PDT to display):

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/motor...a-parking-space

''As might be expected it takes nearly eight minutes to find somewhere to park in London compared to five minutes of searching in the East of England and East Midlands.''

And that's ONLY the time to drive round and round and find a space, and does not include the time then taken to queue to pay at a machine, then read the instructions, find the right change and pay, which when busy in the Summer (this being a very popular tourist spot), could easily be another 8 minutes in the queue.

A BPA top brass spokesperson made it clear that the time at the start IS a separate grace period than the time at the end:

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-...s-grace-periods

HTH for later on.

Old_Eyes

Thanks a lot Coupon-Mad

Old_Eyes

As I understand it, an appeal was put in with the below response from the firm. They are asking for the driver to be named, but nothing further it would appear...


What should happen? Or is there a link I can refer to?


We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:








We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by 12th September 2017. Please note, Premier Park Limited will not reply to any correspondence until after the above date, if the requested information is not provided.





If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.

Umkomaas

A typical fishing enquiry for driver details, as this makes their task a little easier if they acquire them.

Do not respond. You should get a rejection letter around day 35 with your POPLA code enclosed, which you will use with your formal POPLA appeal and beat the PPC there.

Old_Eyes

Umkomaas wrote: »

A typical fishing enquiry for driver details, as this makes their task a little easier if they acquire them.

Do not respond. You should get a rejection letter around day 35 with your POPLA code enclosed, which you will use with your formal POPLA appeal and beat the PPC there.

thanks for the advice

Old_Eyes

Umkomaas wrote: »

A typical fishing enquiry for driver details, as this makes their task a little easier if they acquire them.

Do not respond. You should get a rejection letter around day 35 with your POPLA code enclosed, which you will use with your formal POPLA appeal and beat the PPC there.

Sorry, so I should completely ignore that email and wait for the POPLA code?

nosferatu1001

Yes. THats what you were explicitly told and also what you woudl have found out in five minutes of checking other threads where this EXACT SAME EMAIL is sent to people.

Old_Eyes

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

Yes. THats what you were explicitly told and also what you woudl have found out in five minutes of checking other threads where this EXACT SAME EMAIL is sent to people.

Thanks Nosferatu!

RobinofLoxley

If you have appealed to PP as keeper you can ignore any other fishing letters they send, such as reminders or ones asking for payment or the drivers details.

Just wait for them to send you their letter rejecting your appeal and giving you a code number for POPLA, which as Nosferatu says could take anything up to 35 days but will probably be earlier.

In the meantime do some research in readiness for the appeal.

It would be useful to save a copy of and familiarise yourself with the BPA's Code of practice.

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf

In particular the sections which will be used as the basis for your appeal, such as

7 - Written authorisation of the landowner.
13 - Grace Periods
18 - Signs

There is also in the COP appendix C extracts from the POFA 2012 which you should also study as a POPLA appeal should question Premier Park's right to claim the parking charge from the keeper under POFA.

This would include the non compliance of their NTK to the conditions required by POFA e.g. the wording to be used as per paragraph 9 (2)(f). Have a look at other Premier Park threads re the 'within 29 days' on their NTK's.

What is the name given by PP in the NTK for their client? The Marina car park is owned by the MDL Marinas Group which includes the companies MDL Developments Ltd, Marina Developments Ltd, MDL Estates Ltd.

They also own the Marina car park in Torquay. You will find loads of threads about that car park.

Old_Eyes

All that advice is appreciated and I'll do some research. I cannot see on the PCN who owns the car park. I've read it several times now, and can't locate that information