Parking Eye PCN: 10 minutes over

snarffie

That put a shudder down the spine!! :eek:

waamo

snarffie wrote: »

That put a shudder down the spine!! :eek:

Yup. If you read back over a few pages there must be half a dozen posts a week asking how to get rid of a default ccj.

PE send mountains of paperwork to both you and POPLA all designed to make you think you can't win at appeal. The fact is though the simple templates off here win nearly every time.

Coupon-mad

snarffie wrote: »

Another question: Why doesn't the initial appeal text (blue text referred to in post #3 of the newbies thread) not also mention the charge as being unreasonable for a 10 minute overstay, or is that irrelevant?

Irrelevant - the ParkingEye v Beavis case in 2015, killed the argument that the charge is disproportionate/no loss suffered. Terrible isn't it? The Supreme Court should be ASHAMED.

PE explained this in a covering letter, (dated 9th August) which came with the PCN (dated 17th June) to out current address. The letter states that they had used a CRA to find us.

My question is, will this have any bearing on our appeal?

I suggest that has a good bearing on your case!

As long as you only appeal as registered keeper now.

You have proof from that tracing letter, that PE failed to serve a NTK on you by day 15 - there is no excuse for missing the POFA deadline (not even because you moved and failed to update the V5) - the consequence is, they can't hold you liable as keeper now. The tracing letter will need to be included as evidence in your POPLA appeal in due course, to argue the 'no keeper liability' point (as well as the rest). Not at this stage though.

At this stage, the keeper just appeals, using the template. Nothing more. And if PE write and ask who was driving, ignore that letter. We know what we are doing.

Guys_Dad

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I suggest that has a good bearing on your case!

As long as you only appeal as registered keeper now.

You have proof from that tracing letter, that PE failed to serve a NTK on you by day 15 - there is no excuse for missing the POFA deadline (not even because you moved and failed to update the V5) - the consequence is, they can't hold you liable as keeper now. The tracing letter will need to be included as evidence in your POPLA appeal in due course, to argue the 'no keeper liability' point (as well as the rest). Not at this stage though.

At this stage, the keeper just appeals, using the template. Nothing more. And if PE write and ask who was driving, ignore that letter. We know what we are doing.

But OP wrote

It looks as though we hadn't updated the V5 after moving, so the PCN originally went to our old address according to ParkingEye. PE explained this in a covering letter, (dated 9th August) which came with the PCN (dated 17th June) to out current address. The letter states that they had used a CRA to find us.

I can't agree with you this time. As long as the NtK was served at the DVLA held address within 14 days, they fulfilled POFA requirements. The fact that RK had moved and their DVLA details were not updated is not the PPC's fault.

Op is lucky that the current residents seem to have sent "No longer at this address" to PPC

(4) The notice must be given by:
(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current
address for service for the keeper, within the
relevant period; or
(b) sending it by post to a current address for service
for the keeper so that it is delivered to that
address within the relevant period.
(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph
(4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after
that on which the specified period of parking ended

Elsewhere in the Act it specifies what address is the registered address and that it is the one held at the time by the DVLA.

Quentin's post above highlights just how lucky OP was.

Redx

the OP better get that address changed ASAP , otherwise it can lead to a "fine" from the DVLA of up to £1000 , plus the same if driving licenses have not been updated either

snarffie

Redx wrote: »

the OP better get that address changed ASAP , otherwise it can lead to a "fine" from the DVLA of up to £1000 , plus the same if driving licenses have not been updated either

V5's are in the post as of this morning (mine and my wife's v5!)

We changed our driving licenses and direct debits for road tax, but the v5's were completely missed BY BOTH OF US!! My wife was a bit freaked out about the whole thing last night :eek:

I wonder if there's any way to see if anybody else might be chasing us for any parking invoices etc. in the meantime?

Thanks again to Quentin for pointing out the v5 thing.

Quentin

You can check your credit records by both signing up to one of the free credit score agencies to see if you have any ccjs recorded against you

snarffie

Bad news!

Having appealed to Parking Eye, I received an email from them last week to say:

"We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been unsuccessful and that you have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. This site is a maximum stay car park, as per the terms and conditions as detailed on the signage. Your appeal has been rejected on the basis that the maximum time allowed was exceeded."

The next few paragraphs refer to POPLA, the Ombudsman service and of course the opportunity to pay the reduced fee.



My original appeal text to PE was as follows:

"Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. xxxxxx/xxxxxx

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

Clause #13 of the BPA CoP applies here and this appeal, any subsequent appeal and also any court case will have this as a prominent argument as to why this invoice should be cancelled

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,
etc"

Presumably my main argument to POPLA is that there was no period of grace to enter and leave the car park, which is sensible.

I am not sure how I can argue the legibility of the signage because I don't have any photo's of the signage (other than a google street view, which is fuzzy), and live a 100 mile round trip from the car park. Should I just drop that part? Would spending time reading the signage not form part of my 'grace period' argument anyway?

Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

That's not bad news, it was as expected. Now you must win at POPLA.

Search the forum for 'grace period ParkingEye POPLA Kelvin Reynolds' and change the search to 'show POSTS' not threads. You will be reading perfect examples from recent weeks to plagiarise, within 2 minutes flat! Most ParkingEye POPLA appeals here are about them playing fast and loose with the grace periods rules - literally every week we win one.

And BTW, you NEVER drop 'unclear signs' as an argument at POPLA, it's one of the standard, deliberately very long pre-written POPLA templates in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread.

Was your PCN received by day 15 and does it have the POFA 29 days paragraph on the back?

snarffie

Hi Coupon-Mad,

Thanks for replying to my post.

The PCN was issued on 17th June, four days after the alleged event. Unfortunately, we hadn't updated our v5 document at the time and PE say they used a credit-referencing agency to get the PCN to our current address (in a covering letter, dated 9th August).

The POFA 29 days paragraph is on the back of the PCN.