Prep for Disciplinary hearing

Undervalued

ReadingTim wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what it exactly means; regardless it is neither polite nor professional, and for what is tantamount to swearing at a customer, it's not surprising he's been given his marching orders.

Exactly!

The OP seems totally bogged down in irrelevant points of procedure and is ignoring the fact that even the minimum his son is prepared to admit would warrant dismissal from many employers.

I agree that there seems little doubt that his transgressions go further and clearly the employer has formed a "reasonable belief" that is the case.

For the last time I will repeat that this is not a court of law and the allegations do not have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

tommytynan123

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

If you insist on appealing, please try and bear in mind that if he goes in there accusing everyone of lying and conspiring against him, all he is going to do is make things far worse.

Try and listen.

He hasn't told you the truth, so you don't have the full facts.

To compound that, you are incoherent and incapable of presenting a case.

I don't care if you make things worse for your son, so go ahead and do so. But you will.

... and you are arrogant and pompous but I can live with that. Of course if you were a real hotshot in the HR world you wouldn't be posting on here but raking in tons of dosh from the zillion cases you handle. So, Mr Whizz, what is the truth then?
As I don't work I have loads of time to get him the best support possible and I am doing that. Today a solicitor talked to son and read the evidence and re-worded the appeal slightly. Off it will go. He will also take on the case later if required. Son and I are content at present. Goodnight.

sangie595

tommytynan123 wrote: »

Of course if you were a real hotshot in the HR world you wouldn't be posting on here but raking in tons of dosh from the zillion cases you handle. So, Mr Whizz, what is the truth then?.

Ah, and therein lies the rub. You were in HR, and very recently too. You were made redundant from a role in HR not that long ago, and yet here you are posting about some of the simplest and most basic HR work, and not getting it!

Absolutely nothing about this "case" is remotely novel, or remotely new law. I've been on the other side of the desk from HR for decades now, and I am struggling to find a single thing here that I wouldn't have been able to say decades ago when I was a rookie. The basics of the law on disciplininary action hasn't changed a bit since 1981 (the year I became a shop steward). There is nothing new or strange in this incident - from the definition of "reasonable belief", to the clauses used for dismissal, or the processes adopted. No matter what area of HR that you practiced, this is HR 101 - there isn't a single thing about this that you shouldn't know and know well. And since that is the case, ask yourself why you can't see what is being said to you by people here.

You must know that there is never such a thing as "the whole truth" and that the discrepancy between the employers story and your sons is so great that one of them is not telling the truth. The employer has no reason to lie! In your version of this, the employer had irrefutable evidence in the form of CCTV of exactly what happened, but you don't believe it. There was a witness, but they were under pressure to report it (which doesn't change a thing about what they reported, or make it untrue). This is nothing but a falsehood and a conspiracy against your son. Why, oh why, would the employer not be able to see that, given all this evidence available?

I'm going to make one last observation, knowing that I am wasting my breath, but for both of your sakes. Do not assume that the employer will crumble. I know this employer. Every trade unionist in the country does. They never settle. No matter how hopeless their case is, and in this matter it isn't, they still fight to the last court of appeal. And of course you've found a solicitor. They obviously also aren't taking in zillions from their expert knowledge of HR, otherwise you'd never have got an appointment that quick! But finding someone willing to send you a bill is easy. Finding a client that is so blind to reason, now that is more difficult. You are so set on one, and only one, version of this, that you cannot hear anything that doesn't accord with that. That means you are also vulnerable to not hearing a solicitor. Remember two things - there is no legal aid for tribunals, and they almost never award costs. What you are paying for this solicitor, and the barrister that I will bet they instruct, must be considered gone for ever - you will probably never get it back. And even, just remotely, even if you win, you may never get back anywhere near what you pay out in legal costs. It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of people who won and ended up paying the whole lot to the lawyers, and still owing them money!

nicechap

tommytynan123 wrote: »

... and you are arrogant and pompous but I can live with that. Of course if you were a real hotshot in the HR world you wouldn't be posting on here but raking in tons of dosh from the zillion cases you handle. So, Mr Whizz, what is the truth then?
As I don't work I have loads of time to get him the best support possible and I am doing that. Today a solicitor talked to son and read the evidence and re-worded the appeal slightly. Off it will go. He will also take on the case later if required. Son and I are content at present. Goodnight.

I can see where your son gets it from.

tommytynan123

Just to close the thread.
My son's version was the truth. We managed, after hours of work, to prove the collusion and prove that others were lying. He made his case at the appeal and following some re-interviews of staff, who had no idea before their re-interview of the evidence he/we had provided, he has been re-instated with a final warning. Back to work next week with some clear instructions from me about manager/staff interface and that he is now under the microscope for 12 months.
:beer::beer:

andrewmp

tommytynan123 wrote: »

Just to close the thread.
My son's version was the truth. We managed, after hours of work, to prove the collusion and prove that others were lying. He made his case at the appeal and following some re-interviews of staff, who had no idea before their re-interview of the evidence he/we had provided, he has been re-instated with a final warning. Back to work next week with some clear instructions from me about manager/staff interface and that he is now under the microscope for 12 months.
:beer::beer:

What did he get a final written warning for?

annandale

I would assume the sacking was downgraded to the final written warning if that's the right word.

ssparks2003

So the victory is that you have moved from dismissed to the stage before dismissed, not exactly a clear win that one.....

Comms69

tommytynan123 wrote: »

Just to close the thread.
My son's version was the truth. We managed, after hours of work, to prove the collusion and prove that others were lying. He made his case at the appeal and following some re-interviews of staff, who had no idea before their re-interview of the evidence he/we had provided, he has been re-instated with a final warning. Back to work next week with some clear instructions from me about manager/staff interface and that he is now under the microscope for 12 months.
:beer::beer:

Im confused, if it turned out to be all lies, why is he on a final warning?

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

tommytynan123 wrote: »

Just to close the thread.
My son's version was the truth. We managed, after hours of work, to prove the collusion and prove that others were lying. He made his case at the appeal and following some re-interviews of staff, who had no idea before their re-interview of the evidence he/we had provided, he has been re-instated with a final warning. Back to work next week with some clear instructions from me about manager/staff interface and that he is now under the microscope for 12 months.
:beer::beer:

At what point do you expect your son to become a normally functioning adult?

What exactly has he had his warning for? Have you actually managed to work that out yet? Did the instagram message that you went on and on about actually matter?