is it worth joining a union?

bugslet

I think if my experiences with union people had been with someone like manxman, I would probably have a better view.

It's a bit like starting out in the working world and getting shafted by bosses in the first couple of jobs, it colours your view of the good bosses.

System

bugslet wrote: »

I think if my experiences with union people had been with someone like manxman, I would probably have a better view.

It's a bit like starting out in the working world and getting shafted by bosses in the first couple of jobs, it colours your view of the good bosses.

I have that same opinion of cabbage. My mother forced me to eat it a few times as a child and i hated it ever since! :rotfl:

scd3scd4

john22 wrote: »

I have that same opinion of cabbage. My mother forced me to eat it a few times as a child and i hated it ever since! :rotfl:

Yep and I had a rubbish Ford Escort when I was 18, should I still never buy Fords? lol

System

scd3scd4 wrote: »

Yep and I had a rubbish Ford Escort when I was 18, should I still never buy Fords? lol

Oh cars always improve with new technology but cabbage is still cabbage

scd3scd4

Ohhhh and to the OP. The answer is.........................the Union wont help as you had no protection before the issue. As explained think of it as the same as car, boiler or house insurance. So no need to wonder its no!

System

I don't think unions have much power to do anything, they're just out to make money from fear, they didn't even turn up for my colleagues during a restructure

I prefer to just have a good relationship with my employers
And if people don't like the terms they're free to leave

scd3scd4

john22 wrote: »

Oh cars always improve with new technology but cabbage is still cabbage

Strange.........I use to say the same about me dads gin & tonic but not anymore.....

bugslet

scd3scd4 wrote: »

Things are often more complicated than this and if you think the Unions are there just to negotiate a pay rise once a year this is could be why you misunderstand there use and purpose.

I will give you one example. A while back we were asked to work over the xmas period. The reps and the company sat down to discuss what rate of pay the men/women would be paid. Both had an idea on what was fair. In the end the company gave what I thought was more than fair rate. As I have said before they are a decent company.....hence why I am still there 20 years later.

Ok so they walk in your office, you don't negotiate! You have a figure and thats that. Fine they walk out and we both lose but we were not working over xmas anyway and its your business!

You know what you can pay and we know what its worth or not worth to work over xmas.

I know unions can negotiate more than pay, but that was the briefest of examples.

As for over Xmas, I presume you mean the actual bank holidays, we'd talk to the staff currently. I don't know how it works in other places, I 've only ever worked for small companies, but it's always been sorted out. I'll give you a real life example going back a few years.

We used to do transport in the UK only and then we dipped our toes in to Europe. Some of the early journeys were only a few hours to destination and back to port, less than 8 hours altogether. Of course the UK pay structure wasn't designed to deal with that type of scenario where people weren't working, but free to dispose of their time, seeing tulips in Amsterdam or whatever, but also limited by being in a foreign country and meeting ferry times. So a couple of the drivers came to us and we thought yes, you are right it's currently a rubbish system. It got changed and as long as you are abroad you are guaranteed 12 hours, 8 hours basic and four hours overtime, even if you only work 2 hours. If you work more than 12, those hours are paid as well. There were other changes, but let's keep it simple. The drivers thought it was fair and over the years since we put a lot of effort in and discussed it with the lads, it's stood with a few minor tweaks as regulations and the job evolves.

Maybe other places work from a position of seeing how little they can get away with, whereas we work from what's the maximum we can afford. Another example! Every Xmas we give a bonus, bottle or crate of their choice and a £100.00. Xmas before last they were surprised to find £500.00 bonus, because we had had a good year and we shared it.


I can't imagine us ever not getting an agreement with staff over Xmas to use your example. It s just not how it works with us.

scd3scd4

MatthewAinsworth wrote: »

I don't think unions have much power to do anything, they're just out to make money from fear, they didn't even turn up for my colleagues during a restructure

I prefer to just have a good relationship with my employers
And if people don't like the terms they're free to leave

They have plenty where I work.

Why would you think people don't have decent relationships who are in the Union?

No, its our company we will stay. Well trained, experienced motivated staff are an asset. If senior management don't like it they can leave.

System

Scd3 - you said well trained - jobs that are more skilled have more ability to strike/whatever, most of the people I work with are replaceable - striking is a privilege for the elite, it's not something we could do

Unions use more hostile forms of negotiation, like threatening strikes, overtime band, etc - and they try to achieve pay & conditions that are unnaturally above market rate, in doing so they make it more expensive for companies to hire and more expensive for customers to buy a service -
remember that everybody is a customer... Including unskilled workers and pensioners

When we had a restructuring meeting 1 of the 3 unions my colleagues use turned up for a recruitment drive, they only managed to delay what happened by raising questions, that was all they did, they stopped nothing, I feel like my colleagues are being ripped off