is it worth joining a union?

Manxman_in_exile

DavidF wrote: »

"What can a union do for me".......
I'm afraid you are thinking about it the wrong way. It should read - "What can I do for the union" If all that you can do is pay membership dues and vote for this that and the other then fine that's your choice you will get the "insurance" that your membership dues provides as well as any discounts from partners of the union ect ect ect.
IF on the other hand you and your fellow workers take the union and use it properly then you would open up a whole mainly unknown world where you may be entitled to free education/upskilling health and safety training and a whole host of other benefits that being part of a collective (which is what a union is - a collection of your co workers).
I personally have had at least £2000 worth of "free" courses funded by the union over the last 3 years. Funded by the EU no less. The big surprise is coming.......I am a SELF EMPLOYED electrician.....Yep still pay my dues and turn up at the odd meeting especially in matters relating to my trade that may have a national influence. They obviously couldn't help me from being laid off as I am SE BUT they have in the past assisted in getting us better pay even though we were all SE but also we were in the union too so we could call on them to mediate and negotiate for things like money/safety/terms and conditions.
Unions do not take members out on strike. Members vote and the result of the vote then dictates weather any industrial action is taken. Strikes are the last line of defense - The right to withdraw your labour is a very important right and was won though many pints of blood.....and it is a right that sadly many people the world over could only dream of such is the enslavement of far too much of the human race.
Finally if you think the people running the union in your workplace are rubbish or whatever....Then put yourself up for selection when the time comes and change things to YOUR liking with your fellow workers votes and approval.

I like that post.

bugslet

sangie595 wrote: »

People have the right to join, or not join, a union. And I'm all for that choice. I'm also all for not giving non union members any of the benefits negotiated for by the union. That, to me, is a simple and fair position.

Which comes back to what do you do about people who don't join a union for whatever reason.

Say 70% of Bugs Truckings drivers are in a union and we agree a 3% increase in pay . The other non union 30% do exactly the same job. I'm going to pay them the extra 3%, (not 2.5% or 3.5%), you can't have people doing the same job on different money. So again, unless we bring in closed shops, I'm not sure what the answer is.

Before entering into a talk with the union, 3% was my figure anyway, so the non union people were always going to get that. As I said before, I know what I can pay.

On the insurance comment, I have always had dogs , between 3-6 at any one time, but haven't had insurance. * That's my choice, I have sufficient funds to cover vet fees and that would be my theory on employment issues.

*Full disclosure, I have a one year old Giant schnauzer for whom I have taken out Insurance for her first year only.

Manxman_in_exile

kmb500 wrote: »

Hi,

I have never cared for unions and what they do but I am worried about losing my job due to ill health and am wondering if a union can help me? like Unison (I work for local govt).

I'm genuinely interested by the quite polarised views on this thread. I've never understood where the "I've never cared for unions and what they do" point of view comes from.


Yes - I think that in the 70s union power got out of hand - largely because of a succession of weak labour governments where they didn't have a proper working majority in parliament.


But that's 40 years ago and I don't understand why the OP and other posters don't like what unions "do". What do they "do" that people don't like?


Ironically, I'm quite an independently minded person and my wife would definitely describe me as the most "non-sociable" person she knows. Whether this is true or not I don't know. (Obviously I don't know anyone else!:rotfl:). But I've always been in a union. I've always seen benefits and no downside.


I've had good and bad experiences as a union member. But if I thought local reps weren't very good I could have become one myself and found out how difficult it was.


I've also fought my own battles at work (despite both the union and my wife thinking I was wrong) and won! So I can understand why some posters have a jaundiced view of unions. But my view was that I'm hedging my bets by joining a union. Who wouldn't?


So I've digressed a bit, but my point is, why do so many people not care for what unions "do"?

System

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I'm genuinely interested by the quite polarised views on this thread. I've never understood where the "I've never cared for unions and what they do" point of view comes from.


Yes - I think that in the 70s union power got out of hand - largely because of a succession of weak labour governments where they didn't have a proper working majority in parliament.


But that's 40 years ago and I don't understand why the OP and other posters don't like what unions "do". What do they "do" that people don't like?


Ironically, I'm quite an independently minded person and my wife would definitely describe me as the most "non-sociable" person she knows. Whether this is true or not I don't know. (Obviously I don't know anyone else!:rotfl:). But I've always been in a union. I've always seen benefits and no downside.


I've had good and bad experiences as a union member. But if I thought local reps weren't very good I could have become one myself and found out how difficult it was.


I've also fought my own battles at work (despite both the union and my wife thinking I was wrong) and won! So I can understand why some posters have a jaundiced view of unions. But my view was that I'm hedging my bets by joining a union. Who wouldn't?


So I've digressed a bit, but my point is, why do so many people not care for what unions "do"?

Like everything in life we put values and importance on different things and people will have various reasons for not caring about things that don't impact on their lives.

It's good to have a debate about topics and try to convince someone to change their mind but it's also important to respect other peoples decisions and choices that they make.

It's when people begin to bully, name call and create a hostile environment for others who choose to be different then it becomes a big issue.

Manxman_in_exile

bugslet wrote: »

Which comes back to what do you do about people who don't join a union for whatever reason.

Say 70% of Bugs Truckings drivers are in a union and we agree a 3% increase in pay . The other non union 30% do exactly the same job. I'm going to pay them the extra 3%, (not 2.5% or 3.5%), you can't have people doing the same job on different money. So again, unless we bring in closed shops, I'm not sure what the answer is.

Before entering into a talk with the union, 3% was my figure anyway, so the non union people were always going to get that. As I said before, I know what I can pay.

On the insurance comment, I have always had dogs , between 3-6 at any one time, but haven't had insurance. * That's my choice, I have sufficient funds to cover vet fees and that would be my theory on employment issues.

*Full disclosure, I have a one year old Giant schnauzer for whom I have taken out Insurance for her first year only.

I agree with the bit I've put in bold. but I suspect you are a scrupulous employer and want to be fair to all your employees.


But not all employers are so fair. There are plenty of threads on here about people being paid different salaries for doing the same job. The general response is "well, negotiate a better salary".


That's ok for those who have the ability to do so but not so good for those who don't. It becomes a race to the bottom and eventually benefits nobody.


Whereas I think collective bargaining benefits everyone.

System

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I agree with the bit I've put in bold. but I suspect you are a scrupulous employer and want to be fair to all your employees.


But not all employers are so fair. There are plenty of threads on here about people being paid different salaries for doing the same job. The general response is "well, negotiate a better salary".


That's ok for those who have the ability to do so but not so good for those who don't. It becomes a race to the bottom and eventually benefits nobody.


Whereas I think collective bargaining benefits everyone.

Over my years of working I have came across some work colleagues who don't know how to talk about issues with management or just don't know basic employment rights. In those circumstances it would probably be better for them to join the union to help them.

However I wouldn't be surprised that some of those people who can't do what i mentioned above would not know what the benifts of a union are either..... catch 22!

Manxman_in_exile

john22 wrote: »

Like everything in life we put values and importance on different things and people will have various reasons for not caring about things that don't impact on their lives.

It's good to have a debate about topics and try to convince someone to change their mind but it's also important to respect other peoples decisions and choices that they make.

It's when people begin to bully, name call and create a hostile environment for others who choose to be different then it becomes a big issue.

Yes. I would agree with you and that's a very fair comment.


Perhaps it's easy for me to forget picket line confrontations from the past (I think bugslet referred to this as well) and they were unforgiveable. Such things should never have happened.


Perhaps I now have a better understanding about what people don't like about what unions "do".


As you say, we all have our valid reasons.

scd3scd4

bugslet wrote: »

Which comes back to what do you do about people who don't join a union for whatever reason.

Say 70% of Bugs Truckings drivers are in a union and we agree a 3% increase in pay . The other non union 30% do exactly the same job. I'm going to pay them the extra 3%, (not 2.5% or 3.5%), you can't have people doing the same job on different money. So again, unless we bring in closed shops, I'm not sure what the answer is.

Before entering into a talk with the union, 3% was my figure anyway, so the non union people were always going to get that. As I said before, I know what I can pay.

On the insurance comment, I have always had dogs , between 3-6 at any one time, but haven't had insurance. * That's my choice, I have sufficient funds to cover vet fees and that would be my theory on employment issues.

*Full disclosure, I have a one year old Giant schnauzer for whom I have taken out Insurance for her first year only.

Things are often more complicated than this and if you think the Unions are there just to negotiate a pay rise once a year this is could be why you misunderstand there use and purpose.

I will give you one example. A while back we were asked to work over the xmas period. The reps and the company sat down to discuss what rate of pay the men/women would be paid. Both had an idea on what was fair. In the end the company gave what I thought was more than fair rate. As I have said before they are a decent company.....hence why I am still there 20 years later.

Ok so they walk in your office, you don't negotiate! You have a figure and thats that. Fine they walk out and we both lose but we were not working over xmas anyway and its your business!

You know what you can pay and we know what its worth or not worth to work over xmas.

scd3scd4

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I've had good and bad experiences as a union member. But if I thought local reps weren't very good I could have become one myself and found out how difficult it was.


I've also fought my own battles at work (despite both the union and my wife thinking I was wrong) and won! So I can understand why some posters have a jaundiced view of unions. But my view was that I'm hedging my bets by joining a union. Who wouldn't?


So I've digressed a bit, but my point is, why do so many people not care for what unions "do"?

Local reps are unpaid and have to start somewhere. And yes they can be hit and miss. You can always ask for the full time district rep.

I have met some local reps who should be on staff they are so good. Worth their weight in gold.

scd3scd4

gingerdad wrote: »

Found unions to be hopeless.

My wife a member of the NUT and absolutely hopeless when help needed.

Me I was a member of the GMB for a bit when working for an airline. All the managed to do was delay a pay rise for a year arguing. Still got the same payirse the Comapny had offered in the first place

For me barge pole and don't touch.

I also totally disagree with thier politics

Experience shapes our view for the most part. Mine is the polar opposite in nearly every way.