CHAPS transfer problems - complaint

MattyRob

Hi All

Just after a bit of a sense check on a potential complaint to my bank/building society (I won't name them but I'll just call them 'bank' from now on) over a CHAPS payment issue I had last week.


The background:

On Monday at around 2pm I submitted a CHAPS transfer request to send a sum of money to my solicitor which was a property exchange deposit. At around 5.30pm the bank sent me a message with the confirmation details and all appeared to be fine.

By Wednesday morning the solicitor still hadn't received the funds, so I telephoned the bank and after being on hold for 25 minutes I eventually got through to somebody who admitted that the bank had entered the destination account number incorrectly (they must type the details in manually, which was a surprise to me). He said he would rectify the problem ASAP.

The bank’s advisor also said that, despite the account number being incorrect, the solicitor would be able to see the funds in their account because the transfer details included their name and correct sort code. When I relayed that information to the solicitor they said they couldn’t see the funds, and both them and I doubted the accuracy of that advice. It seemed more likely to me that if you put in a wrong account number, it goes to the wrong account, if one exists with that number, or else it should bounce back as an error.

Late on Wednesday afternoon I had heard nothing so I called the bank again and, after waiting to speak to someone for another 30 minutes, I was told effectively that nothing had been done and I’d have to wait until the next day.

On Thursday morning I called them again but was left waiting on hold for over 20 minutes, at which point I was called into a work meeting so had to end the call without having spoken to anybody.

Early Thursday afternoon I called and got through after a 10 minute wait. In that call the advisor said that he could see the funds had been transferred back into my account and asked if I wanted to process the transfer again. I said yes, of course, and the transfer was successfully completed on Thursday afternoon. I was charged their CHAPS transfer fee a 2nd time to complete the transfer.


So to summarise my complaints:

• It took 75 hours to complete what should have been done in 3 hours
• It delayed exchanging contracts on my property purchase by one day, and potentially could have had serious consequences for the whole chain
• They’ve charged me for two transfers even though the first transfer failed and the need for a 2nd transfer was due to their mistake
• I spent nearly two hours on hold in total which indicates they don’t have enough staff on the phones
• I’m not sure the advice I received in the first call re the solicitor being able to see the funds even though it went to a different account number was correct
• As it was their mistake I feel the problem should have been rectified immediately and not more than 24 hours later
• When the money was transferred back into my account they should have called me to let me know instead of waiting for me to call them

I think at the very least I should expect an apology and to have both fees refunded.

Does anyone know if the advice I received per point 5 is correct or have any other comments on the above before I send the complaint?


Thanks,


MattyRob

YorkshireBoy

The advice you received in point 5 is incorrect.

Your case is worse than an incident I had with an HSBC CHAPS payment a few years ago (although not for a house purchase). Mine went next day, despite submission well before the day's cut-off.

They waived the fee (obviously!), and from memory gave me a goodwill payment of £200.

ICan'tStandIt

You should have complained as soon as they admitted making an error with the account number and you should definitely complain now.

They owe you compensation, not just an apology and a refund of the two fees as this could have resulting in your house purchase falling through.

I'm not familiar with buzz words like 'sense check' but if you are asking if you should be complaining, then my answer is "hell yeah!"

YorkshireBoy

ICan'tStandIt wrote: »

They owe you compensation...as this could have resulting in your house purchase falling through.

You can't be compensated for something that "could have" or might have happened. You can, however, be compensated for "distress and inconvenience", including time and resources expended in dealing with the matter.

dunstonh

By Wednesday morning the solicitor still hadn't received the funds, so I telephoned the bank and after being on hold for 25 minutes I eventually got through to somebody who admitted that the bank had entered the destination account number incorrectly (they must type the details in manually, which was a surprise to me). He said he would rectify the problem ASAP.

How else would the account number be input if it was not manually? The process is very similar to online faster payments.

The bank’s advisor also said that, despite the account number being incorrect, the solicitor would be able to see the funds in their account because the transfer details included their name and correct sort code. When I relayed that information to the solicitor they said they couldn’t see the funds, and both them and I doubted the accuracy of that advice. It seemed more likely to me that if you put in a wrong account number, it goes to the wrong account, if one exists with that number, or else it should bounce back as an error.

That is not correct. The sort code and account number are key.

Back when I used to deal with CHAPS payments (a long time ago so probably out of date), the receiving bank would also be required to accept the CHAPs payment and verify the details were correct. A wrong bank account name (not matching the sort code/account number) would see the receiving bank reject the CHAPS. That probably doesnt happen nowadays.

Early Thursday afternoon I called and got through after a 10 minute wait. In that call the advisor said that he could see the funds had been transferred back into my account and asked if I wanted to process the transfer again. I said yes, of course, and the transfer was successfully completed on Thursday afternoon. I was charged their CHAPS transfer fee a 2nd time to complete the transfer.

This would indicate that no checking at the receiving end took place. The account it went to didnt exist, so it was returned (not using CHAPS but through clearing).

Being charged a second time is disgraceful as it was not your error.

So to summarise my complaints:
1 - It took 75 hours to complete what should have been done in 3 hours
2 - It delayed exchanging contracts on my property purchase by one day, and potentially could have had serious consequences for the whole chain
3 - They’ve charged me for two transfers even though the first transfer failed and the need for a 2nd transfer was due to their mistake
4 - I spent nearly two hours on hold in total which indicates they don’t have enough staff on the phones
5 - I’m not sure the advice I received in the first call re the solicitor being able to see the funds even though it went to a different account number was correct
6 - As it was their mistake I feel the problem should have been rectified immediately and not more than 24 hours later

1 - CHAPS is not guaranteed. So, the fact it took longer is not in itself a complaint reason.
2 - exchange of contract delay did not hold up the chain. So, you cannot complain about a hypothetical scenario that did not occur. Complaints are looked at by outcomes. A mistake that creates an unsatisfactory outcome is serious. The same mistake that does not create an unsatisfactory outcome is minor and treated as an inconvenience.
3 - charging you twice is a disgrace and the complaints team wont accept that and they will refund.
4 - you will almost certainly get a goodwill gesture for the inconvenience.
5 - the advice was not correct but it didnt change anything. It just adds to the inconvenience.
6 - They have to allow a period to see whether the payment would be correctly applied. The payment would have ended up on a suspense account and the receiving bank may have moved it to the correct account. So, whilst it was their mistake, they have to be given a reasonable time to correct it. Your view it should be less than 24 hours is unreasonable. Back in my days of banking, we would have been mortified of such an event. We would have contacted the receiving bank and confirmed a course of action so we knew what was going to happen. Today, the banks don't train the staff as well and they dont have the numbers. The days of staff members having to do a period of time on each role are long gone. That isnt an excuse for bad service but an explanation for the bad service.

In all, I would expect the CHAPS fees to be refunded and a goodwill gesture of around £100-£250 on top of that.

They owe you compensation, not just an apology and a refund of the two fees as this could have resulting in your house purchase falling through.

They do not owe any compensation on hypothetical scenarios that did not happen.

MattyRob

Thanks for your replies everyone

ICan'tStandIt wrote: »

You should have complained as soon as they admitted making an error with the account number and you should definitely complain now.

They owe you compensation, not just an apology and a refund of the two fees as this could have resulting in your house purchase falling through.

I'm not familiar with buzz words like 'sense check' but if you are asking if you should be complaining, then my answer is "hell yeah!"

I thought about complaining as soon as I knew about the error, but I was more concerned about getting the money to the solicitor so decided to wait until it was all sorted. I'll be making the complaint this afternoon for sure.

dunstonh wrote: »

How else would the account number be input if it was not manually? The process is very similar to online faster payments.


That is not correct. The sort code and account number are key.

Back when I used to deal with CHAPS payments (a long time ago so probably out of date), the receiving bank would also be required to accept the CHAPs payment and verify the details were correct. A wrong bank account name (not matching the sort code/account number) would see the receiving bank reject the CHAPS. That probably doesnt happen nowadays.



This would indicate that no checking at the receiving end took place. The account it went to didnt exist, so it was returned (not using CHAPS but through clearing).

Being charged a second time is disgraceful as it was not your error.



1 - CHAPS is not guaranteed. So, the fact it took longer is not in itself a complaint reason.
2 - exchange of contract delay did not hold up the chain. So, you cannot complain about a hypothetical scenario that did not occur. Complaints are looked at by outcomes. A mistake that creates an unsatisfactory outcome is serious. The same mistake that does not create an unsatisfactory outcome is minor and treated as an inconvenience.
3 - charging you twice is a disgrace and the complaints team wont accept that and they will refund.
4 - you will almost certainly get a goodwill gesture for the inconvenience.
5 - the advice was not correct but it didnt change anything. It just adds to the inconvenience.
6 - They have to allow a period to see whether the payment would be correctly applied. The payment would have ended up on a suspense account and the receiving bank may have moved it to the correct account. So, whilst it was their mistake, they have to be given a reasonable time to correct it. Your view it should be less than 24 hours is unreasonable. Back in my days of banking, we would have been mortified of such an event. We would have contacted the receiving bank and confirmed a course of action so we knew what was going to happen. Today, the banks don't train the staff as well and they dont have the numbers. The days of staff members having to do a period of time on each role are long gone. That isnt an excuse for bad service but an explanation for the bad service.

In all, I would expect the CHAPS fees to be refunded and a goodwill gesture of around £100-£250 on top of that.



They do not owe any compensation on hypothetical scenarios that did not happen.

Thanks for the detailed reply.


On the manual entry, I don't know how these payments work inside a bank, but I would have thought it's all quite automated these days. I entered the account number into an online form, so I would have thought their system would autopopulate any further forms that needed to be filled in, or at the very least they'd be able to copy and paste. I'm surprised that they have somebody there manually retyping or writing out details again, given how prone that process must be to errors. That's not part of my complaint of course, more just a curiosity.


The basis for thinking it should have been resolved in less than 24 hours is because it was supposed to be a same-day service. My thinking is that it's reasonable to use the same time scale for resolving issues. I got the impression on the phone that it wasn't a big job for them to resolve it, but just needed the right person to be available. The fact that it took that person more than 24 hours to get to my case suggests to me they're understaffed, and could easily resolve issues more quickly by hiring more people. I do appreciate that there might be a bit more to it than that, however.

RADDERS

As far as I am aware CHAPS is a guaranteed same day payment as long as it is actioned before the banking cut off time, that is why you pay for it.
Cut off used to be 3pm but I believe that it has been extended.
So you are correct when you same it should have arrived that day, I would be ringing up and saying that you want to raise an official complaint and it to be logged and treated as such.

YorkshireBoy

RADDERS wrote: »

Cut off used to be 3pm but I believe that it has been extended.

The 'system' cut-off may be 3pm or later, but I believe I'm correct in saying banks are allowed to impose their own earlier cut-offs?

firefox1956

I would be doing my complaining in WRITING not in a long winded blathering telephone call.
You have been given some rather silly excuses by your bank & I think if you get hold of the right person with your complaint they will be appalled at what has taken place.

robatwork

Pretty shocking incompetence by "bank". I hope you'll come back and name them once your complaint has been resolved. Make sure you don't use any sentences like "House exchange could have been delayed". It's a pointless sentence and will annoy an adjudicator.

When you complain I would cc in one of the following:
http://www.chapsco.co.uk/governance/board-directors
Interesting stat on that website:
As of July 2011 the total value processed since the start of CHAPS exceeded one quadrillion (£1,000,000,000,000,000) pounds.

Keep your complaint to the point, and ask for refund of your fees, compensation for the phone calls, hassle, incompetence, and misleading advice (don't say lying).

I think £200-300 would be in the ballpark.

Chalkius

That's pretty bad by the bank. If you complain, at the very least I'd ask for the CHAPS fees back, that's a no brainer. Then you have to look at just how much hassle this has caused you to come up with a figure for what you feel you should be compensated. While it could have caused a huge amount more, keep in mind that it didn't, so don't go into potential losses, talk about what happened. So your time was wasted, it caused stress because you were worried about the house purchase which is a massive deal. I don't know what that's worth to you, but were I to be going through that I'd be asking for around £100-150 or so, but I don't know what your job is or your circumstances. For example for me I've been off work the past few weeks and I haven't had much to do so it wouldn't have really put me out apart from the stress and being stuck on hold.