Entered Wrong reg on App. messed up my appeal now.

Le_Kirk

How long did the Letter of Claim give you to respond? If it was 30 days then treat it as a Letter Before Claim - check the NEWBIE sticky post #2 for how to answer it. If it is 14 days it is another debt collecting frightener.

waamo

You did absolutely the right thing coming back to this thread. We don't have to go hunting for background now.

Odds of them carrying out their threat can be seen here http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Britannia_Parking_Group.html

Unlikely but not entirely unknown.

I would respond robustly. The Newbies thread at the top of the board has examples of replies to court threats. They are in post 2 of that thread.

Umkomaas

Block their phone number, you have no need to speak with them.

Now you must treat their Letter of Claim seriously and respond using the advice in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.

In addition to asking for all the details to which you are entitled under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAP),

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

you should also send a SAR to the following (use the same request for each).

Britannia
Zenith
BW Legal

(Did you also have letters from Debt Recovery Plus, if so SAR them too)

You need to get all the information available to be able to defend any possible court claim.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5849784/june-2018-start-of-the-new-ppc-and-dvla-fightback-gdpr-related

As I said in post #4, over 12 months ago, you could have killed this off for '20 notes'. Now that 'whole pile of work' has just dropped through your letterbox!

This means you will have 6 years of uncertainty as to whether Britannia will launch a court claim, then you'll have a whole pile of work to do - and your game will need to be stepped up from the kind of letter you've produced.

Whether you get a court claim or not, you will inevitably find yourself in receipt of a number of debt collector letters over the next 6-8 months. They can be ignored, but it won't stop them dropping through your letterbox at regular intervals.

As much as this is a fightback forum, sometimes pragmatism can be the best strategy. If you feel you have the appetite, stamina and resilience to handle all the above, then dig your heels in and fight. If you think it not worth it and at the same time resolves the issue for good, then it might be 20 notes well spent (albeit through gritted teeth).

Jamesrb

Le_Kirk wrote: »

How long did the Letter of Claim give you to respond? If it was 30 days then treat it as a Letter Before Claim - check the NEWBIE sticky post #2 for how to answer it. If it is 14 days it is another debt collecting frightener.

letter was dated 28th August and they have given me until 2nd October, so just over 30 days. Will treat it as a Letter before claim then. Thanks.

Jamesrb

Umkomaas wrote: »

Block their phone number, you have no need to speak with them.

Now you must treat their Letter of Claim seriously and respond using the advice in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.

In addition to asking for all the details to which you are entitled under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAP),



you should also send a SAR to the following (use the same request for each).

Britannia
Zenith
BW Legal

(Did you also have letters from Debt Recovery Plus, if so SAR them too)

You need to get all the information available to be able to defend any possible court claim.



As I said in post #4, over 12 months ago, you could have killed this off for '20 notes'. Now that 'whole pile of work' has just dropped through your letterbox!

In hindsight I probably could have saved hassle and paid the £20, but even then, didn't feel as though I should part with any of my hard earned money when it was purely down ot human error and they weren't out of pocket.
Ive had a read through the #2 post in the Newbies section. Is the 'Danial San' reply something I could just copy and paste (adding my own details obviously) to send them, or would I need his permission to use it? that seems about as robust a reply as anything I could ever dream of putting together.


Thanks

Umkomaas

No need for any 'permission', this is a public forum and we encourage using others' work that might help. You could, as a matter of courtesy, drop him a PM to say you'll be doing so.

Just a heads up, Daniel's case is a residential parking one, so don't blindly copy it, look through it carefully and be sure it makes sense in the context of your parking event.

Coupon-mad

The reply there is also too long, so please remove the entire paragraph rambling on about the 1.10.17 changes, as you will see other people have been told to do in all recent LBC replies you care to read over the past month (search and read some, not just an older case).

Jamesrb

The letter I am planning on sending today:


4th September 2018

Your Ref:xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Of Claim of 28th August 2018
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


Yours faithfully




It is lierally a cut and paste of Danial Sans letter with a bit deleted out as advised. I was debating adding that I believed BW Legal were scamming me as the letter from Brittania to say that they were passing my case to BW legal was sent in the same envelope as the BW Legal letter both dated 14th August so because I hadn't been contacted independently by the two companied I wasn't sure it was legitimate... but maybe im cluching at straws there?
Also to add, when I first answered a call to BW Legal not knowing who they were they were (not 100% sure how they got my phone number, I don't recall adding it to the Brittania detail but vcant be sure) they wouldn't discuss anything with me until I confirmed I was who I said I was by providing my address, I told them I want prepared to give a stranger my personal details. they have called me at least 4 times since which I haven't answered.


If the letter looks good then please let me know and I will get it sent in to them. Should I email it to them to prove I have sent it?


I will also send the SAR to ask for all details as advised.


Thanks again for anyone who spends time helping me here, it is massively appreciated.


James

KeithP

Check the things they did actually supply with their Letter of Claim.

Compare that with the list of things you are asking for in your response.

It would be foolish to ask for things they have already supplied.

Jamesrb

KeithP wrote: »

Check the things they did actually supply with their Letter of Claim.

Compare that with the list of things you are asking for in your response.

It would be foolish to ask for things they have already supplied.

The only things specified on the letter of claim is....
Client: Britannia Parking Ltd
Account Number: xxx
Vehicle Reg:
Contravention Description: Failed to display a valid P&D ticket or Permit
Contravention Location: Plymouth - Charles Cross Plymouth


Enclosures:
Information sheet which is sheet explaining what to do next to avoid court action
Reply From
Income and expenditure form