Strange Leasehold/Freehold arrangement

DazRave

I'm going to try and jump straight into explain this one. Names have been replaced with fakes.

• In the process of buying our first home after offer accepted (Based in North West)
• 1950s property owned from new, lady Owner (Deidre) now in a home
• Deidre has no children, therefore her best friend and neighbour (Pat) is acting as Vendor
• Downloaded the Freehold and Leasehold documents from the Land Registry as I like to do my own due-diligence
• Leasehold is 999 years (956 remaining) but strangely states the name Joe Bloggs and Jane Bloggs as the lease holders, not Deidre or Pat for that matter. Slight alarm bell
• Freehold document states freeholder as a company based in London (Large Estates LTD). Their website has a form for potential home buyers to request leasehold terms etc. So naturally we filled the form out.
• Large Estates LTD tell us that the property comes under a block of properties that are managed by Joe Bloggs LTD and we should refer our enquires to them directly. Slight alarm bell as that company name is mighty similar to the name on the leasehold.
• Further investigation of Joe Bloggs LTD and there are 100s of extremely bad reviews. From lost payments, to months and months of calls always ringing out. One person said they even went around to the office multiple times and they were always shut. Alarm bells again!
• Searched for Joe Bloggs and Jane Bloggs on Companies House. No record of Joe Bloggs LTD that I could find however, listed on the same street just a few doors down was NorthWest Management Company with Jane Bloggs as a director and her residence listed as being the same as Joe Bloggs LTD (it's an office, certainly not a house or flat). Massive alarm bells

Am I starting to uncover some crazy scam or line of shell companies here? What's going on!?


EDIT: Yes, I'll be giving all of the above information to my conveyancing solicitor. Any other advise or experience from anyone here extra that I can find out would be great though. Thanks!

da_rule

So Deirdre's name doesn't appear anywhere on the leasehold title?

Zizou

People who are acting on behalf are taking advantage of vunrable old lady!

It's a scam!

Pull out!!

DazRave

da_rule wrote: »

So Deirdre's name doesn't appear anywhere on the leasehold title?

No, nor does Pat who is acting on behalf of Deirdre. We assumed at first that Deirdre may have put everything in her friends name until we found out her friend was called Pat.

DazRave

Zizou wrote: »

People who are acting on behalf are taking advantage of vunrable old lady!

It's a scam!

Pull out!!

No the house sale itself is not a scam. We have spoken directly to Pat and her husband. She's just a bit younger then Deidre she tells us and genuinely does live across the road.

Pat doesn't know anything about the Leasehold other then her own house and how much the ground rent is. The documents we've downloaded indicate Pat's house has the same Freeholder at least.

da_rule

So in that case it raises a serious concern regarding whether Deirdre actually has the ability to assign the lease as it would appear that she is not a proprietor.

DazRave

da_rule wrote: »

So in that case it raises a serious concern regarding whether Deirdre actually has the ability to assign the lease as it would appear that she is not a proprietor.

I've just downloaded Pat's registry documents. She has the same Leasehold as the house Deidre 'owns'. However, she has two leasehold's listed.

One leasehold is exactly the same and lists Joe Bloggs LTD as the leaseholder where as the other has Pat's full name and her husbands as the leaseholder.

Could this be now something to do with the fact Deidre has lived in the house from when it was built?

p.s. Thanks for help so far!

Annie35

has deidre sold her house to joe bloggs & rent back, one of those dodgy 'schemes' usually sharking round vulnerable/care home fee concerns where the actual detail of whats happening is glosses over? maybe deirdre thinks she still owns it & so is selling it, but actually cant as she sold it last year or whatever to joe bloggs??

DazRave

Annie35 wrote: »

has deidre sold her house to joe bloggs & rent back, one of those dodgy 'schemes' usually sharking round vulnerable/care home fee concerns where the actual detail of whats happening is glosses over? maybe deirdre thinks she still owns it & so is selling it, but actually cant as she sold it last year or whatever to joe bloggs??

That's actually not a bad shout. However Pat's property also has a leasehold listing Joe Bloggs LTD. The actual freeholders Large Estates LTD have directed us to Joe Bloggs LTD as simply the management company for the leases of that area.

Is it weird that Pat's property has two leaseholds listed as well as the freehold? Is one an outdated one?

eddddy

Is there a head lease? That would explain everything you've found.

Freeholder = Large Estates Ltd
Head lease holder (and management co) = Joe Bloggs Ltd
Leaseholder = Deidre

If that's the case, it's all fine.

eddddy

DazRave wrote: »

Is it weird that Pat's property has two leaseholds listed as well as the freehold?

A head lease and a lease (underlease)?