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MSE News: Retirement age hike has left women hundreds of pounds worse off

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  • System
    System Posts: 178,117 Community Admin
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    They should taper the loss for those older ladies in genuine need - It may not be the PC thing to say but this is another case of equality when it suits.
  • kidmugsy
    kidmugsy Posts: 12,709 Forumite
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    Talking as if there really were a National Insurance fund is naive. There isn't and there never has been. It's a pay-as-you-go scheme with a bit of Potemkin book-keeping intended to gull the public.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
  • JezR
    JezR Posts: 1,697 Forumite
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    The NI Fund was in surplus for the best part of 15 years, but that was largely driven by favourable demographics and the credit-funded boom, and has been used up by the slow/no growth in incomes post 2008 and adverse demographics. Before 1997 there was a contribution from consolidated fund more often than not.

    Read articles from 2003-5 and you can find claims that this illusory excess could pay for greater pensions on its own. Similar in a way to surpluses in final salary schemes 10 years before.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
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    edited 3 August 2017 at 5:06PM
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    Heng_Leng wrote: »
    They should taper the loss for those older ladies in genuine need - It may not be the PC thing to say but this is another case of equality when it suits.
    They could do a taper but the IFS found no evidence of deprivation.

    Their deprivation measure wasn't things like buying food, but having money to:

    1) keep their home in a good state of decoration
    2) have home contents insurance
    3) put away £10 savings per month for a rainy day
    4) replace worn-out furniture
    5) replace broken electrical items

    Even of there had been an increase in those a delay until reaching state pension age would presumably have taken care of it, but what they found was no sign of an increase and rates of close to zero for all five of those measures.

    There's no doubt that the increase in pension credit age is causing difficulties for men and women but the benefits system for those of working age seems to be doing its job and at least largely preventing even those quite generous measures of deprivation.
  • Archi_Bald
    Archi_Bald Posts: 9,681 Forumite
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    Some of us weren't able to build a private pension
    No sane person would claim that this only applies to 1950s women. WASPI are obsessed with an unhealthy sense of entitlement, and most journos are too scared to challenge them. Why is that? Do they all have mums born in the 1950s who threaten to kill them if they dare to put all the facts on the table?
    Heng_Leng wrote: »
    They should taper the loss for those older ladies in genuine need - It may not be the PC thing to say but this is another case of equality when it suits.
    why just older ladies? Why not older men, too? I see a lot of physically knackered blokes in their early 60s struggling to make ends meet.
  • Mortgagefreeman
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    Archi_Bald wrote: »
    No sane person would claim that this only applies to 1950s women. WASPI are obsessed with an unhealthy sense of entitlement, and most journos are too scared to challenge them. Why is that? Do they all have mums born in the 1950s who threaten to kill them if they dare to put all the facts on the table?

    This is what I don't understand. Any Journo giving WASPI a cursory glance could have a field day. Directors with Farms, people who retired aged 50 complaining, Teachers with nice Index linked Pension, the list continues. You seem to find very little evidence of those 'on the breadline' Plenty of Greed few in need.

    They're a bloody disgrace.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 117,125 Forumite
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    This is what I don't understand. Any Journo giving WASPI a cursory glance could have a field day. Directors with Farms, people who retired aged 50 complaining, Teachers with nice Index linked Pension, the list continues. You seem to find very little evidence of those 'on the breadline' Plenty of Greed few in need.

    They're a bloody disgrace.

    Everyone is too scared to be honest though in case it hurts their brand.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • TrustyOven
    TrustyOven Posts: 746 Forumite
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    Malthusian wrote: »
    WASPI solicit money from those who are "in need", those who can barely afford it, to fund spurious legal challenges, first class train tickets and champagne. They refuse to inform their members who are genuinely in need about the existing state benefits they can claim to alleviate that need: such as carer's allowance, ESA, PIP etc. WASPI instead takes money off them on the hopeless promise that in exchange they'll get them their State Pension at 60 with a backdated lump sum - something that is morally not far off from advance fee fraud.

    WASPI do not campaign for those who are in genuine "need" (not of an early SP, but of the relief that is available to those under state pension age), they exacerbate their situation by telling them to put their faith in - and give money to - a hopeless political campaign rather than claim the relief that already exists. They rob from the poor to give to the rich.
    Goldiegirl wrote: »
    The Waspi leadership have repeatedly rejected suggestions that focus on those in most need, presumably because they wouldn't qualify.

    I don't think the leadership are being driven by altruism - their actions smack of self interest

    Good points, and now reject my previous comment that GRASPI are doing it out of altruistic motivations.

    I think what "triggered me" was the attack on wealthy people that are appearing to help the less privileged. It appeared to me as a combination of 'strawman' and 'ad hominem' fallacies, maybe others, I'm not that good with logical fallacies.
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  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 11,027 Forumite
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    This is what I don't understand. Any Journo giving WASPI a cursory glance could have a field day. Directors with Farms, people who retired aged 50 complaining, Teachers with nice Index linked Pension, the list continues.

    Yesterday the Guardian ran a column by Polly Toynbee, who owns a holiday home in Tuscany and another in Lewes, bemoaning the "scandal" of empty houses in London, entirely without irony. The former editor of that paper owns a mostly empty home in the Cotswolds for the sole purpose of being able to practise his grand piano in solitude.

    That leaves the Daily Mail as the only paper likely to take on WASPI and WASPI members mostly read the Daily Mail so that isn't going to happen.

    (Remember Yes Minister: "the Times is read by the people who run the country; the Guardian is read by the people who think they ought to run the country; the Financial Times is read by the people who own the country; and the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country." Slightly outdated but the gist holds true 30 years on.)

    The Times has largely ignored WASPI and the Telegraph's readers are far too old. The Sun's readers might get it: "Horses, farms and champagne in first class - the women "on the breadline" who say they should get their pension 7 years earlier than a man". But it's pensions and pensions are complicated. Even if their readers would get it the editors will think they won't.
    TrustyOven wrote:
    I think what "triggered me" was the attack on wealthy people that are appearing to help the less privileged. It appeared to me as a combination of 'strawman' and 'ad hominem' fallacies, maybe others, I'm not that good with logical fallacies.

    I've said it before but WASPI's entire argument is based on personal need, which means that the person is the argument. You don't get to cry ad hominem when your entire thesis is ex hominem to start with. If your argument is "I am in desperate need so you should give me money" then "You are not in desperate need" is a valid counterargument.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 117,125 Forumite
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    've said it before but WASPI's entire argument is based on personal need

    You made a spelling mistake. its not "n". its "gr". [STRIKE]need[/STRIKE] - greed
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
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