We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Being taken to court for unpaid rent for 3 months we were not there. HELP!
doodledoodle24
Posts: 805 Forumite
Here is what our situation is at right now,
Signed a short hold tenancy agreement on 3rd March 07. Paid 1400 pounds which was 1 months rent 700, and 1 months rent as a deposit 700.
Signed the agreement as Adam (my other half) being the first applicant and then his friend (our house mate) signed as second applicant. Adam had a guarantor sign with him on the application, but he signed as guarantor for Adam only.
The second months rent (April) was given two or three days late as the standing order hadn't been set up correctly, this was the agencies error so there was no extra charge to us.
third months rent (May) was paid late, but because this was the first occasion there was no charge.
Fourth months rent was held back by Adam.
This was due to the fact that despite asking for a copy of the gas safety certificate, we still hadn't been given one. Agency advised that we did not need to have one by law (which we do!).
We had also reported things that we're in need of repair to the agency and no one had done anything about it.
At this point the second applicant had moved out in the beginning of April as he couldn't afford to pay his share of the rent.
In total of three months he had only contributed 450 pound. Even though he'd moved out he's contractually obliged to carry on paying as we were advised by community legal services (CLS).
A representative from the agency came to the property on the 12Th of June to look at the disrepair on the property. Adam had asked that the landlady also attend with the rep as Adam wanted to speak to her regarding us coming to an arrangement to end the tenancy agreement early as he was now paying 700 pound a month on his own and he couldn't afford it any longer.
When the rep attended, we gave her a list of 21 things that needed attention from the landlady, we also recorded the audio on our mobile phone during the hour long visit, in with Adam stated that he wanted to end the agreement early and he didn't want to just abandon the property.
We were told that a maintenance man would attend the property the next day (13/6) to do some of the repairs. No one attended.
We rang on the 14Th to see what was going on and was told that the landlady had told them that there wasn't anything wrong with the property when it was first let out and the we had done all of the damage and that they wanted us out off the property.
Adam said that was fine as he no longer wanted to live in the property any longer.
The keys were given back on the 11Th of July, and my deposit wasn't returned, so Adam accepted that they kept it for Junes rent.
Adams guarantor has received a court hearing for the 15Th October 12:00 noon.
Adam,his guarantor and his old friend are all to appear to defend the claim for possession of property. They are claiming on the grounds of unpaid rent arrears for June, July, August. plus court fees of 219.50 plus interest.
We have spoken to the community legal service who have said that Adam qualifys for legal aid, but after speaking to solicitors on the phone they've told me that it is a debt matter and legal aid doesn't cover such things.
The CLS said there maybe a counter claim for unlawful eviction.
They evicted Adam (us) and are now trying to seek three months rent back on the basis that Adam still live there.
We have a headed letter dated 3rd July from the agency stating that we should have moved out of the property on the 30Th June and they haven't received the keys and that would be coming round to the property at 3pm on the 4Th and would enter in our absence.
I still have the list of repairs that needed doing on the pc, plus photographic evidence of the state of the property. I had environmetal health out to it, and since moving out, 2 of the major faults (the front door and windows) have all been changed and updated, despite us being told that there was nothing wrong with them.
Can anyone advise me on what to do?
Signed a short hold tenancy agreement on 3rd March 07. Paid 1400 pounds which was 1 months rent 700, and 1 months rent as a deposit 700.
Signed the agreement as Adam (my other half) being the first applicant and then his friend (our house mate) signed as second applicant. Adam had a guarantor sign with him on the application, but he signed as guarantor for Adam only.
The second months rent (April) was given two or three days late as the standing order hadn't been set up correctly, this was the agencies error so there was no extra charge to us.
third months rent (May) was paid late, but because this was the first occasion there was no charge.
Fourth months rent was held back by Adam.
This was due to the fact that despite asking for a copy of the gas safety certificate, we still hadn't been given one. Agency advised that we did not need to have one by law (which we do!).
We had also reported things that we're in need of repair to the agency and no one had done anything about it.
At this point the second applicant had moved out in the beginning of April as he couldn't afford to pay his share of the rent.
In total of three months he had only contributed 450 pound. Even though he'd moved out he's contractually obliged to carry on paying as we were advised by community legal services (CLS).
A representative from the agency came to the property on the 12Th of June to look at the disrepair on the property. Adam had asked that the landlady also attend with the rep as Adam wanted to speak to her regarding us coming to an arrangement to end the tenancy agreement early as he was now paying 700 pound a month on his own and he couldn't afford it any longer.
When the rep attended, we gave her a list of 21 things that needed attention from the landlady, we also recorded the audio on our mobile phone during the hour long visit, in with Adam stated that he wanted to end the agreement early and he didn't want to just abandon the property.
We were told that a maintenance man would attend the property the next day (13/6) to do some of the repairs. No one attended.
We rang on the 14Th to see what was going on and was told that the landlady had told them that there wasn't anything wrong with the property when it was first let out and the we had done all of the damage and that they wanted us out off the property.
Adam said that was fine as he no longer wanted to live in the property any longer.
The keys were given back on the 11Th of July, and my deposit wasn't returned, so Adam accepted that they kept it for Junes rent.
Adams guarantor has received a court hearing for the 15Th October 12:00 noon.
Adam,his guarantor and his old friend are all to appear to defend the claim for possession of property. They are claiming on the grounds of unpaid rent arrears for June, July, August. plus court fees of 219.50 plus interest.
We have spoken to the community legal service who have said that Adam qualifys for legal aid, but after speaking to solicitors on the phone they've told me that it is a debt matter and legal aid doesn't cover such things.
The CLS said there maybe a counter claim for unlawful eviction.
They evicted Adam (us) and are now trying to seek three months rent back on the basis that Adam still live there.
We have a headed letter dated 3rd July from the agency stating that we should have moved out of the property on the 30Th June and they haven't received the keys and that would be coming round to the property at 3pm on the 4Th and would enter in our absence.
I still have the list of repairs that needed doing on the pc, plus photographic evidence of the state of the property. I had environmetal health out to it, and since moving out, 2 of the major faults (the front door and windows) have all been changed and updated, despite us being told that there was nothing wrong with them.
Can anyone advise me on what to do?
is officially a GLEEK
0
Comments
-
Sounds like you will have to file a counterclaim for all the defects you have listed. IANAL but I don't think you can counterclaim as a defence, you will have to make a proper counterclaim (not easy technically IMHO), document your counterclaim, file it with the court and be prepared to back it up when the case comes up. Hopefully for you the judge will balance out the two sides claims and award sufficient of your counterclaim that you at least break even, but I wouldn't hold my breath over it.
One big problem you have here (and for anyone else reading this) is that you have broken your tenancy agreement by not paying the rent. That is what will form the basis of your landlord's claim and it is hard to avoid that argument in law.
Edited to add, you might get them to back down on the basis that they didn't have a Gas Safety Certificate. I'd report them and the agency to H&S (is it? mind's gone blank) anyway.A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
Oh dear - what a messFourth months rent was held back by Adam.
This was due to the fact that despite asking for a copy of the gas safety certificate, we still hadn't been given one. Agency advised that we did not need to have one by law (which we do!).
We had also reported things that we're in need of repair to the agency and no one had done anything about it.
Unfortunately, none of these are grounds for witholding rent. Essentially, there are no grounds for witholding rent. Rent is due if the property is available for you to occupy. If it's not, then there are other remedies (e.g. alternative accommodaion) but that's not the issue here.
The rent was due and should have been paid.We rang on the 14Th to see what was going on and was told that the landlady had told them that there wasn't anything wrong with the property when it was first let out and the we had done all of the damage and that they wanted us out off the property.
Adam said that was fine as he no longer wanted to live in the property any longer.
The keys were given back on the 11Th of July, and my deposit wasn't returned, so Adam accepted that they kept it for Junes rent.
It will appear to the Court that Adam abandoned the property. If the LL wanted them out, she should have issued a statutory notice - without this notice as evidence, it will appear as though Adam simply chose not to live there any longer.
However, even if not living there, the property was available for him to occupy (see above) so the rent is still due.
A deposit cannot and must not be used against arrears of rent - so the rent remains unpaid. The LL will claim that the deposit is being held against the damage she claims was made to the property.
Who were the keys given to? Any receipt?I still have the list of repairs that needed doing on the pc, plus photographic evidence of the state of the property. I had environmetal health out to it, and since moving out, 2 of the major faults (the front door and windows) have all been changed and updated, despite us being told that there was nothing wrong with them
This won't help with the rent arrears, I'm afraid. And the LL may use this expense to justify keeping some of the deposit.
Hang around for other replies, but there are two (or more) separate issues here.
Firstly, unpaid rent. It sounds as though this is the reason for the Court Summons - is that what the papers say? If so, then I can't see much of a defence. There doesn't seem to be any reason why the rent was not paid - as it is payable if the property is habitable and available for occupation. It's like claiming a rent rebate for being on holiday, on the basis that you weren't occupying the property - it's irrelevant. The point is that the property was available for the tenants' exclusive use - whether or not they chose to live there.
The other issues are not relevant to the rent arrears claim. If you/Adam want the deposit returned, then you need to pursue that separately - don't muddle it up with the rent arrears.
Also, was he evicted? As I said earlier, there seems to be no evidence of this. It's all well and good the "rep" saying that LL wanted you out - but this is not an eviction. An eviction has to be done correctly, by issuing the proper legal notice and following the proper legal process. Without that, then Adam wasn't evicted.
Shelter may be able to help - but I don't hold out much hope. Stick around though as others may have more positive suggestions.Warning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac
0 -
Hi, thanks for both of your replies.
The claim on the court documents is for possesion of the property, and monies owed.
However, we have the headed letter from the agency stating we were due to move out on the (date) and we still have not had the keys back. we will be forcing entry on the (date).
This was sent to us back in june when we moved out.
So, they would have forced entry in june, know for a fact we were not there, yet have still put a claim in for july aug and sept!
Also, the 2nd tenant went to the property in september and spoke to the landlady there himself, which again, proves we no longer lived there.is officially a GLEEK0 -
doodledoodle24 wrote: »Hi, thanks for both of your replies.
The claim on the court documents is for possesion of the property, and monies owed.
However, we have the headed letter from the agency stating we were due to move out on the (date) and we still have not had the keys back. we will be forcing entry on the (date).
This was sent to us back in june when we moved out.
But it's not an eviction notice - it's just confirmation that you voluntarily moved out.So, they would have forced entry in june, know for a fact we were not there, yet have still put a claim in for july aug and sept!
We don't know that they did, but it doesn't change the fact that you agreed to rent the property and to pay the rent each month. You don't have to live there to be liable for the rent - the tenancy agreement makes you liable for the rent even if you never move in!Also, the 2nd tenant went to the property in september and spoke to the landlady there himself, which again, proves we no longer lived there.
Sorry to repeat this but .... it's not the living there that makes you liable for the rent. Read the tenancy agreement and you'll see that you signed up to a legal contract requiring you to pay rent, each month, on time, for the period of the contract.
I can see you've got yourself into a situation where you didn't really understand what "the deal was". Unfortunately, the Court is more than likely going to enforce the contract you signed up to. In law, you don't have any grounds to refuse payment of the rent and I fear you will lose in Court - so perhaps start to think about how you are all going to share the total costs between you to pay off the debt. If you can do this before the Court date, you will avoid a CCJ (and you'll avoid one if you go to Court, but if the full debt is repaid within 28 days).
HTHWarning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac0 -
even if you give the keys back and no longer live there, you are still liable to pay the rent until the landlord is able to relet the property, and even then you have to pay the landlord costs to relet the property.
This is because you ended the rental agreement early - for which a penalty is due as with any contract.
It doesn't look like the agency is trying to claim anything that they aren't entitled to.
As for the repairs etc. you state that these were not carried out, but if this has not cost you anything then what is there to counterclaim for? It is hardly surprising that the landlord did not carry out the repairs when you had not paid rent + informed them you were leaving.
Sorry this isn't much help but from the facts you have given, I can't see what the landlord has done wrong?0 -
Who is this joke of an agency? Not only do they not know about Gas Certificates they'd better have some solid documentation to back up pulling a trick like that quoted above.doodledoodle24 wrote: ».....However, we have the headed letter from the agency stating we were due to move out on the (date) and we still have not had the keys back. we will be forcing entry on the (date).....A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
Reading that again carefully, it makes it worse for the OP. You hadn't handed back the keys, so the landlord can argue you still had the tenancy as you hadn't "voluntarily moved out" and attempted to surrender the tenancy.Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »But it's not an eviction notice - it's just confirmation that you voluntarily moved out.A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
BobProperty wrote: »Who is this joke of an agency? Not only do they not know about Gas Certificates they'd better have some solid documentation to back up pulling a trick like that quoted above.
Probably a relative of the LL :rotfl:Warning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac0 -
moneysavinmonkey wrote: »I can't see what the landlord has done wrong?
How about the LL committing a criminal offence for not providing a gas safety certificate.
"All landlords have to have a valid gas safety record for the gas equipment in the property they rent out. A copy of the record must be provided to the tenant."
"The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) is responsible for enforcing gas safety. You should get in touch with the HSE if your landlord:- has not provided you with a valid gas safety record, or
- refuses to let you see records of safety checks, or
- doesn't do any work required.
You can call the HSE helpline on 0845 345 0055 or 0800 300 363 or contact your nearest office - details are available on the HSE website.
If you live in a house or flat that is occupied by more than two households (an HMO or house in multiple occupation), your local council also has powers to ensure that your landlord complies with the rules on gas safety."
http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-4049.cfm
OP, I would contact Shelter for advice. If you have a house contents policy, then check if it has legal cover. If it has, check with your insurers to see if they will give you a solicitor to act for you (for just the cost of your policy excess).RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
MissMoneypenny wrote: »How about the LL committing a criminal offence for not providing a gas safety certificate.
Although that still doesn't allow the tenant to withold the rent.
And, as it's a criminal offence, there is no remedy for the tenant. The LL gets prosecuted (perhaps) and fined - but the tenant just gets the safety certificate. It won't help DD24 to defend the Court summons for non-payment of rent.Warning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.3K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.7K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.4K Spending & Discounts
- 245.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 601.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.6K Life & Family
- 259.2K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards