G24 - Naive Error!

sjspallett

I have received a Contractual Parking Charge Notice from G24 for a car of which I am the registered keeper.

My daughter is a named driver on my insurance policy and was using my car (for which I have received the PCN’s) on three separate visits to a gym (of which she is a member) and for which G24 control the parking facility.

After reading through your forums, we now see that we have made a naïve error (see below) and I am looking for advice on the best way forward please.

My daughter wrote to G24 explaining that she was a named driver on the car, and was using the gym car park legitimately as a fully paid up member. She apologised for not following the correct procedure by entering the car registration number and asked that G24 consider waiving the PCN’s on this basis.

Of course … now we know that this was not the best way forward. We had no idea how ruthless these parking companies are, and that I should have written to them as the registered keeper and not given the driver’s name.

This was a genuine mistake.

I know that some comments have said to pressure the owner of the car park (in this case the gym) into contacting G24 to ask that the PCN(s) be voided. This has been done, but with absolutely no joy, even when talking about cancelling membership. There is no movement on this front at all.

G24 have now written back to my daughter stating that they reject her appeal, that they will not enter into any further dialogue on this matter and that she either pays the PCN(s) or may appeal to the Independent Appeals Service - which I have discovered from these forums may be a waste of time!

If anyone can advise on the following please:

Should I write to G24 as the registered keeper using one of the templates on this forum?

Should we move forward with the Independent Appeals Service which G24 give as an option in their rejection letter?

Thank you very much in advance for any helpful feedback …

Fruitcake

You are now in ignore mode unless you get real court papers. The BMPA motoring charity will tell you how likely that is.

Go back to the gym and carry out your threat to cancel all memberships. Tell all your family and friends what has happened, and leave negative feedback on social media and the gym's website if they have one, warning people about this scam by a wholly unregulated parking scamdustry.

Also complain to your MP abut this disgusting behaviour and treatment of genuine customers by a bunch of unregulated scammers.

Umkomaas

If anyone can advise on the following please:

Should I write to G24 as the registered keeper using one of the templates on this forum?

Should we move forward with the Independent Appeals Service which G24 give as an option in their rejection letter?

None of the above.

The Registered Keeper has no further part to play in this once the driver has been identified.

The IAS will also reject the appeal - there are no grounds that they would take into consideration. They guarantee to IPC operators that they will reject 85% of all appeals made by motorists.

You now just have to ride this out. You will likely receive (powerless) debt collector letters: they should cause you no concern and they can all be safely ignored. They are not bailiffs, they can't 'send the boys around', and they can't clamp your car or grab your TV.

The only serious step G24 can take is to issue a court claim, and on the basis of the records over the last 3 years (over 275,000 tickets issued, never filed a court claim), do you honestly think your daughter will be their first?

The one caveat to add is that this is not a guarantee going forward, we can't predict what they might do between now and 2023 (they have 6 years to pursue through the courts), but given that the last 12 months has seen a feeding frenzy of PPC generated court cases and G24 have still not joined the bandwagon, it maybe they've made a conscious decision not to get involved in the legal end of things.

Come back in the unlikely event if a court claim - we help with defences, and over the past year 99% of court case defences assisted by the forum have been successful.

sjspallett

Thank you Fruitcake and Umkomaas for your prompt and helpful replies.
I shall not be contacting G24 or the IAS (and shall advise my daughter to do the same).
I'm aware now that we'll probably (both) get countless letters from them, but I shall not respond.
Your replies - and this forum - have been very helpful and enlightening!

sjspallett

Apologies for coming back to you again on this matter, but something is playing on my mind.

In total, we have received three separate PCN's from G24 each for the sum of £100.

My daughter responded to the first dated PCN from G24 stating she was a genuine gym member and legitimately using the gym car park.

The further two PCN's arrived after she sent her reply to G24 (she was still legitimately using the gym car park at these times as a member).

The car registration was the same on all three occasions and she is a named driver on my insurance policy for the same car as photographed on the PCN's.

I am being naive in thinking that they will link these three PCN's together, or would it be advisable to write to them as registered keeper for the remaining two PCN's?

With the way that these parking companies operate, I feel I need to cover all eventualities ...

Many thanks once again ...

Redx

no , you are on the wrong track

the PPC has to apply for the keeper details EACH AND EVERY TIME and would also breach the DPA if they fail to do so , so 3 pcn,s means they ask for details under their KADOE contract three times

so 100 times for 100 pcn,s , no assumptions , no breaking their contract with a government department , no ASSUMING

they are not allowed to go back for the details again either , so if somebody moves house 2 years later , they change their DVLA details , yet a PPC will currently send letters to the previous address they obtained at the time of the incident - this leads to CCJ,s etc and T MAY promised action on this sc@m about 9 months ago (nothing has been done)

nb:- EACH pcn must be appealed SEPARATELY , even if all three were appealed in the same envelope, with only the PCN reference being different on each appeal

so its not one size fits all, its appeal 3 times , one for each pcn , as KEEPER (not driver)

never BLAB about who the driver was

ps:- think about this

for all G24 know, I could have been the driver !!!!

in fact , there are MILLIONS of people here in the UK who could have been the driver, never mind car thieves !!! (think about it)

sjspallett

Thank you Redex.
So bearing in mind that my daughter has only appealed to G24 (which was rejected) for the first PCN (unfortunately she did name herself as the driver and legitimate user of the gym car park on this occasion), then I shall now respond to G24 for the further two PCN's as the registered keeper using a template I saw on this forum somewhere.
I shall not name the driver for these further two PCN's.
Then once this is done I shall not enter into any further correspondence with G24 or any of their 'agents' and will advise my daughter to do the same.
This forum has been very helpful in trying to make sense of what is a very confusing and worrying situation.
Thank you once again.

The_Deep

The good thing is that, if they were daft enough to take your daughter to court, they would probably come unstuck. After all, no-one lost a penny, your daughter was entitled to park where she did, and the charge looks like a penalty.

Your daughter might like to write bad stuff on the gym's Facebook page.

Redx

sjspallett wrote: »

Thank you Redex.
So bearing in mind that my daughter has only appealed to G24 (which was rejected) for the first PCN (unfortunately she did name herself as the driver and legitimate user of the gym car park on this occasion), then I shall now respond to G24 for the further two PCN's as the registered keeper using a template I saw on this forum somewhere.
I shall not name the driver for these further two PCN's.
Then once this is done I shall not enter into any further correspondence with G24 or any of their 'agents' and will advise my daughter to do the same.
This forum has been very helpful in trying to make sense of what is a very confusing and worrying situation.
Thank you once again.

correct, use the black text IPC member template , its in the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum

appeal as KEEPER (NOT AS DRIVER)

to play devils advocate , let us both assume for a moment that the one the daughter blabbed about was in fact herself , thats one , lets assume the second one was yourself driving for example , lets assume the third one was your wife (or your son , or myself , or coupon mad , or umkomaas , or the police , or a thief ,(TWOC) or anybody that is covered by third party insurance !! )

so a possibility of 3 drivers , still the same keeper isnt it ?

this is one reason why they cannot assume who the driver was , never mind the legal niceties and DVLA contract etc

G24 might not have a valid and dated legal contract , the signage may be poor/inadequate and fail the IPC CoP , the NTK may not be POFA2012 compliant , or may have arrived too late to adhere to POFA2012 , so legally they may well fail if they tried a court case (which they havent up to now)

yes its complicated, that is the nature of this unregulated sc@m industry

what is the best way to get rid for good ?

get a landholder cancellation !!!

sjspallett

Thank you all for your helpful feedback.

What a learning curve!

I shall put the first PCN reply / appeal to G24 down as an honest and naive error (where my daughter named herself as the driver as a legitimate gym member using the gym car park). There's no going back on this now, but I guess it's a case of waiting the six years and then filing away, without response, all the letters and demands for payment which will undoubtedly arrive over this period of time at her address.

The subsequent two PCN's - I shall use the IPC template and appeal to G24 as the Keeper, not giving the name of the driver. Again, I'm sure that I'll be receiving countless letters and demands over the next six years.

I'll sit tight and not respond ... and I'll be advising my daughter to do the same once the letters start arriving at her address too.

Much appreciated all - this is a great forum, with sensible and calm advice.

Thank you everyone!

Redx

but , bear in mind that NEITHER OF YOU should IGNORE an LBC from G24 or from their official legal representatives (solicitors), and especially DO NOT IGNORE an MCOL from Northampton CCBC if one or more come in the post , issued by either G24 or their solicitors

its the DCA begging letters etc you can IGNORE