Ending TV licence

Cornucopia

Even though that's not an entirely frank account, it covers the main points.

I have two main issues with it:

1. They say that the "visit" is optional, but what they don't say is that the entire process is probably incompatible with the Human Rights Act, as well as being counter to the general principle that the UK authorities do not go door-to-door in search of offences without reasonable prior suspicion. There are also some requirements around Search by Consent within PACE that aren't being observed.

2. They say "The officer simply takes a brief view of the main living areas to verify whether or not television receiving equipment is installed or in use", but that just begs the questions as to what the criteria are (which they won't tell you), and what happens if they think you need a Licence (especially if you disagree).

DoaM

Some would say you should never ever sign any paperwork if TVL ask you to sign to "confirm they've visited"... they may use it against you as a declaration of using TV equipment without having a licence.

Whether this is true or not ........

hollydays

They used to ring me and infer I was breaking the law-I told them not to ring me again.

x_raphael_xx

I've not had a TV licence for about 3 years now, never had a problem. I don't watch tv or catch up.

Had one guy turn up at the door for an inspection in the first year, all he asked me to do was turn the tv on (I have it for my games console) and when it wouldn't connect to a tv signal he left. Took all of two minutes & no problem.

I don't see what the problem is with letting them check if you're legitimate.

Cornucopia

x_raphael_xx wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is with letting them check if you're legitimate.

There are three answers to that:-

1. Is a question of principle. We rarely in this country have to prove our innocence to the authorities, which is absolutely how it should be.

2. Is a question of protection. Whilst some people encounter TVL staff who are perfectly reasonable (like you did), others have had very different experiences resulting in false allegations being made. Under our legal system, such allegations can be very hard and very expensive to fight. Personally, I choose not to take that risk (and the BBC have banned themselves from my premises anyway).

3. Is a question of law. Article 8 of the Human Rights Act sets out exactly how our privacy in our homes should be respected by Public Authorities. It is likely that the TV Licensing operation is a breach of that, and I would not want to be complicit in such a breach of the law.

Wulfrune

Excellent stuff Cornucopia.

What about "Withdrawal Of Implied Right of Access" on ones door?

Cornucopia

Wulfrune wrote: »

Excellent stuff Cornucopia.

What about "Withdrawal Of Implied Right of Access" on ones door?

I'm not a big fan of that specifically, the issue being that TV Licensing HQ are a lot easier to deal with on the legal stuff than the average TVL person in the field (whose livelihood depends on "results").

Certainly, either WOIRA in the post works, or a hand out sheet for TVL visitors that expresses one's legal rights succinctly but without actually banning TVL as such. The advantage of a handout is that it can empower every member of a household equally, even if only one person understands the detail.

Something like this:-

Dear TVL staff member/contractor,

You have been given this notice because you have made an unwanted and unsolicited call at this unlicensed home.

In line with BBC policy and the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (England) or Scottish Criminal Law, we have no statement to make and nothing to say - we decline to be interviewed. We will not confirm or deny our identity/ies because we are not required to by law. For now, you are being instructed to leave the premises with immediate effect. We are not prepared on this occasion to permit you entry to the premises, nor will we be involved in any exercise of proving our innocence to you/your employer.

You are free to return, but you may be subject to this procedure on any future occasion.

If you do not leave now, you will be committing the Civil Tort of Trespass, and may be held legally liable both individually and corporately. The Police may also be called and if you remain on private land, reasonable force may be used to eject you.

You may keep your copy of this notice and present it to your employer as an example of a legally accurate response to unacceptable random doorstepping by a Public Authority.

For and on behalf of all adult occupiers of the premises.

unholyangel

x_raphael_xx wrote: »

I've not had a TV licence for about 3 years now, never had a problem. I don't watch tv or catch up.

Had one guy turn up at the door for an inspection in the first year, all he asked me to do was turn the tv on (I have it for my games console) and when it wouldn't connect to a tv signal he left. Took all of two minutes & no problem.

I don't see what the problem is with letting them check if you're legitimate.

While I've never had problems personally, your post can be answered in 2 words....Michael Shakespeare. Google that name with tv licensing and what you'll find should be enough to understand the trouble some people do encounter.

The issue is what if we took that approach to everything? Dont have a fishing permit? Let us come into your house to make sure you don't have any fishing gear. Dont have a licence to trade on the street? Let us come into your house to check theres no signs of being a trader. Dont have a shotgun/handgun licence? Let us come in to check you don't have any.

Up until relatively recently, they used to push the lie "if you own a tv, you need a licence". That is what (in my experience) the majority of the older generations believe. Anytime you buy tv equipment, your details are passed on. You don't see the police coming round to check you're not planning on harming someone anytime you buy a knife.

It shouldn't happen. Their sole argument against decriminalisation seems to be "not as many people would buy the licence". Thats not something to build a business on!

steampowered

A family member cancelled their TV licence. TV licensing wrote to them asking for confirmation that they didn't watch live TV. They simply confirmed this as requested, and had no issues whatsoever.

You do unfortunately get a number of people who try to make the process sound more difficult than it really is, in order to push their dislike of needing to pay for the TV they watch.

Cornucopia

steampowered wrote: »

A family member cancelled their TV licence. TV licensing wrote to them asking for confirmation that they didn't watch live TV. They simply confirmed this as requested, and had no issues whatsoever.

Good - that's how it should be.

You do unfortunately get a number of people who try to make the process sound more difficult than it really is, in order to push their dislike of needing to pay for the TV they watch.

I'm not sure that makes sense. Surely it should be the other way around: those who want to see the back of the TV Licence should make it sound as easy as possible to become Licence-free.

Personally, I'm simply being honest - some people will have a relatively straightforward experience and others won't. Either way, TVL still say that they "may visit to check" which I find unacceptable in principle.