Quick gender discrimination question

[Deleted User]

Hermia wrote: »

A friend goes to AS parties and she said they often have naughty games and confessions to get the women laughing and in the mood. I can imagine a lot of women would clam up if a man was there. In the shop I assume the staff would only discuss the products if the customer asked so it's not so important.

I've always thought AS parties are 'women only' events. It'd make sense then they'd only hire women for the job of hosting them. Sexuality isn't the key here, it's Sex (not gender).

There's probably room for complexity when it comes to whether a male-to-female transsexual would be discriminated against in these positions.

bugslet

I posed a hypothetical question on the board once.

We rarely get female applicants - only 1% of truck drivers are women and my personal guess is that the majoirty of that 1% don't tramp ie. be out all the time, most choose jobs that get them back home the same day.

Our particular job spec would read international haulage, double manning. So for the non truck people that means our trucks have two drivers in the cab with two bunks in the cab. Based on that I'd not hire a woman as all my other drivers are male and it's not the best situation.

IIRC the hypothetical question was, could I specify a man on the job ad and I seem to remember the consensus was in that situation was there was grounds to do so. In reality, I'd just say thanks but no thanks if a woman applied to save laying myself open to a discrimination claim.

Back to the OP, I went as a favour to a friend to an AS party - so not my thing; I definitely would not have liked it to be hosted by a man!:o:eek:

engineer_amy

Undervalued wrote: »

Suppose a ladies clothes shop wants a specialist bra fitter? I would imagine (hope!) it would be perfectly lawful to exclude men!

I attended a training course with the NI Equality Commission a few years ago and this situation was one of the actual cases that was used as an example and the male applicant won his case and was awarded a small sum


A mid-level department store advertised for a sales assistant to work in the ladies wear section. part of the job requirement was doing bra fittings, in addition to the usual cashier, stocking, floor duties. A male applied and was rejected due to the sensitivity of the bra fitting part.
He put in a claim for unlawful discrimination and it was upheld by the Equality Commission on the basis that the bra fitting was only one element of the job. It was reasonable to expect that if a customer required a fitting, the male could go and get a female colleague to carry out the fitting while he covered her duties on the till or the shop floor.


I suppose it would be different if the sole duty of the role was carrying out fittings all day every day.


I don't think I would feel entirely comfortable with a male host at one of these parties (or at least as comfortable as I would with a female)

Malthusian

PasturesNew wrote: »

I agree... but what would be the difference between a gay man doing the job and a lesbian with a b00b fetish?

Simple - as long as the lesbian can avoid drooling on the client's shoulder, the customers will be more comfortable with the lesbian, unless they are mind-readers.

*edit* Notwithstanding what engineer amy said above - I made the assumption that bra-fitting was the only aspect of the job. For a job where it is only a small part of the work and one of the colleagues can easily do it, excluding men is unreasonable, in the same way it would be unreasonable to refuse to hire women on the grounds that the job involves lifting heavy boxes occasionally (but not as the main part of the job).

The shop got what they deserved for being dim enough to tell the male applicant that he was rejected for being male rather than giving a generic reason about someone interviewing better.

Hedgehog99

I have only been to one AS party, but it did involve trying on some of the "normal" underwear, and it wouldn't be suitable to have a male host in those circumstances, just as a male shop employee wouldn't be staffing the fitting rooms.

As for the bra fitter, in one store I shop in, the bra fitter is more or less full time in the fitting rooms or helping women choose from the displays (whenever I have been there, anyway). She's obviously very good at her job and gets lots of everyday customers as well as brides-to-be etc. I'm surprised the man won his case because you can't tell how many customers will require fittings and how much of the staffs' time this will need. It puts more work on other colleagues if they have to cover for him - they might prefer a mix of duties too.

Guest101

jondav wrote: »

I have been to a few AS parties and in all honesty, with absolutely no offense intended, they are just not the right place for men.

There are games that are played, the trying on of the lingerie, the demonstrations of the "items" and it is hosted by and for the benefit of women only.

It is all in fun and for a bit of a giggle and certainly for any of the men that I know, it would be the last place they would want to be

Im more concerned of the principle, rather than the reality - which is obviously an academic point.


Whilst I accept the reality, that view used to apply to mens only clubs.

bugslet

I'm confused - do you want them to say hiring for 18+ - or maybe that should be 16+ since that's the legal age for having sex - person?

Say they take on a bloke and accept a party booking. Should they mention to the prospective party holder that the AS rep is male and if they decide that gender is irrelevant, so don't, I'd be very interested in how that went down when the party host opens her front door and finds Dave there:rotfl:


It's a bit like a group of blokes ordering in a stripper for a stag night, there's a strong chance they are going to want a woman, unless they specify otherwise. Oh heck, this is going places I don't wish to contemplate:o

Guest101

bugslet wrote: »

I'm confused - do you want them to say hiring for 18+ - or maybe that should be 16+ since that's the legal age for having sex - person? - no neither, I was just curious as to why they could say it, which was helpfully answered.

Say they take on a bloke and accept a party booking. Should they mention to the prospective party holder that the AS rep is male and if they decide that gender is irrelevant, so don't, I'd be very interested in how that went down when the party host opens her front door and finds Dave there:rotfl:
- Do you mention the plumber is female? it's just an academic question at this point.

It's a bit like a group of blokes ordering in a stripper for a stag night, there's a strong chance they are going to want a woman, unless they specify otherwise. Oh heck, this is going places I don't wish to contemplate:o

Yes but that is totally different. The blokes aren't employing the stripper, they're hiring a service. The employer would in all likelihood have both male and female entertainers.

Malthusian

Guest101 wrote: »

Whilst I accept the reality, that view used to apply to mens only clubs.

Men only clubs play "truth or dare" games, try on underwear in front of each other and play around with sex toys?

I thought it was only the very specialised ones.

bugslet

Guest101 wrote: »

Yes but that is totally different. The blokes aren't employing the stripper, they're hiring a service. The employer would in all likelihood have both male and female entertainers.

You wouldn't mention that the plumber is female because that isn't pertinent to doing plumbing work; anything of a sexual nature is pertinent where the customer group is almost certain to be one gender presupposes that the hired entertainer will be of a certain gender ( which depends on the exact service provided).

Aren't the women at the AS party hiring a service, they aren't employing the party giver.

Entirely personal take on it, I really don't care if it does specify women only; then again I think there's nothing wrong for specifying men only for my job - get a bit tired of tiptoing round niceties sometimes.