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Serving S21,Tenancy Deposit rules and Sword of Damocles
Comments
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Could this possibly spell the end for the "sword of damocles" as standard operating procedure in ASTs? After all, if it's necessary to serve it after the deposit's been lodged, there's less of a chance of it being overlooked in the standard sheaf of paperwork presented to the tenant at the start of a tenancy, and if you were to present it a few days/weeks later then it'd be a lot more conspicuous to the tenant!2015 comp wins - £370.25
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The interesting point here is that the deposit just needs to be REGISTERED, not actually received/depositied /cleared with the intended holder....so....you can register a deposit BEFORE it is physically received, so agents/LL who do engage in this procedure need only change (slightly) their processes, irrespective of the scheme they use (either TDSL or DPS)The only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on. It is never of any use to oneself. (Oscar Wilde);)0
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clutton - got you thinking there, didn't I?
Not really, anyway S21 "in" an AST are not likely to be legal, see previous discussion.Could this possibly spell the end for the "sword of damocles" as standard operating procedure in ASTs?
True, but the argument against doing this is that you are giving the tenant notice to quit at the end of the initial tenancy period whether you want them out or not. Franklee especially makes a case that this is unfair on the tenant as the landlord can take action at any time after the first day on the S21 (and I do mean any time, like years later). Landlords use it to make sure the tenant has received the S21 and to save any delay in removing the tenant after the initial AST period. There are arguments that the S21 should have a time limit, so it becomes a "use it or lose it" and the tenant is not left in doubt.After all, if it's necessary to serve it after the deposit's been lodged, there's less of a chance of it being overlooked in the standard sheaf of paperwork presented to the tenant at the start of a tenancy, and if you were to present it a few days/weeks later then it'd be a lot more conspicuous to the tenant!A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
A little point, if you include your choice of deposit holder within the AST, you won't be able to easily change between the schemes.
If the tenant receives the S21 at the same time as the deposit paperwork (and TDS have just told me they are not sending paperwork direct to the tenant so the landlord will have to do that), what can the tenant do? They are already into the tenancy and living in the property, so they can't refuse it.I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.0 -
A little point, if you include your choice of deposit holder within the AST, you won't be able to easily change between the schemes.
If the tenant receives the S21 at the same time as the deposit paperwork (and TDS have just told me they are not sending paperwork direct to the tenant so the landlord will have to do that), what can the tenant do? They are already into the tenancy and living in the property, so they can't refuse it.
I've been turning that one over in my mind this evening, the tenant is a bit stuffed. Personally I would leave at the end of the six month tenancy, but I would ensure that I avoid all contact with the LA/LL in the run up to that time so they are unaware of my plans & just turn up at their office on the last day with my keys. The idea being to leave them with a void. It's not great but it's the only thing I can work out.
I might drop a line to HMRC just to be on the safe side"Mrs. Pench, you've won the car contest, would you like a triumph spitfire or 3000 in cash?" He smiled.
Mrs. Pench took the money. "What will you do with it all? Not that it's any of my business," he giggled.
"I think I'll become an alcoholic," said Betty.0 -
I'm not sure what you mean. The tenant can't "refuse" a S21 notice, either it has been served or it hasn't, the tenant doesn't get an option.A little point, if you include your choice of deposit holder within the AST, you won't be able to easily change between the schemes.
If the tenant receives the S21 at the same time as the deposit paperwork (and TDS have just told me they are not sending paperwork direct to the tenant so the landlord will have to do that), what can the tenant do? They are already into the tenancy and living in the property, so they can't refuse it.A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
BobProperty wrote: »I'm not sure what you mean. The tenant can't "refuse" a S21 notice, either it has been served or it hasn't, the tenant doesn't get an option.
Silvercar's point, i think, is that once the tenancy has started the tenant can do nothing if they are served an S21 immediately after."Mrs. Pench, you've won the car contest, would you like a triumph spitfire or 3000 in cash?" He smiled.
Mrs. Pench took the money. "What will you do with it all? Not that it's any of my business," he giggled.
"I think I'll become an alcoholic," said Betty.0 -
Bob Property says """ A little point, if you include your choice of deposit holder within the AST, you won't be able to easily change between the schemes"""
Why would a landlord want to change between schemes ? in any case if you have a computerised copy of an AST you can make changes for each AST depending on the property/circumstances.
"""If the tenant receives the S21 at the same time as the deposit paperwork (and TDS have just told me they are not sending paperwork direct to the tenant so the landlord will have to do that), what can the tenant do? They are already into the tenancy and living in the property, so they can't refuse it."""
DPS send notification to both tenant and landlord once the deposit has been lodged - surely we all agree that the tenant HAS to be informed what has happened to their money - why is TDS not writing to both parties ???
weird ??
but this is a new scheme in the UK and it will need some court judgements to clarify the true meaning of the 2004 Housing Act - like any legislation0 -
It was silvercar actually. (easy mistake :eek:)Bob Property says """ A little point, if you include your choice of deposit holder within the AST, you won't be able to easily change between the schemes"""
Northern Rock type run on the deposit holder?Why would a landlord want to change between schemes ?
I agree, I'd expect them to write to both parties separately.DPS send notification to both tenant and landlord once the deposit has been lodged - surely we all agree that the tenant HAS to be informed what has happened to their money - why is TDS not writing to both parties ???
weird ??A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
"If a landlord has made a deduction and it is disputed by the tenant, the landlord can refuse to go through the Scheme Dispute Resolution Process, and can force the tenant to take him to court to reclaim deposit deductions - so we are then back to square one before the 2004 Act came into force.
I think that works both ways though, doesn't it? Both parties have to agree to let the scheme decide. The courts have a lot more power.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0
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