Joint Tenancy Nightmare!

Bohbadonde

Hi all,

My girlfriend and I have been renting with another couple since Nov '16 and we have had nothing but grief. The four of us are equal joint tenants.

Basically, last month they tried to end our joint tenancy agreement behind our back, and the lettings agent took a fee from them to draw up a new contract, without either party knowing that we would be able or willing to sign it. We confirmed with the lettings agent that we could pay their share of the rent and bills until the end of the current term. However our joint tenants insist that their names must now be taken off the tenancy agreement, since they no longer live here. This has in turn led to our lettings agent pursuing us to sign a new tenancy agreement, despite the fact we have made plans for when we are supposed to vacate in November.

We sought advice from the Shelter helpline, who told us that our joint tenants were in the wrong and cannot leave the tenancy agreement unless they had discussed with us and the landlord, and all parties were in agreement. They also said we were secure in the current circumstances since we have not broken any of the terms of the tenancy agreement. Ultimately we were advised not to sign any new contract and if the lettings agent persisted, we could contact authorities.

We put this to the lettings agent who agreed that we had no legal obligation to sign a new tenancy agreement and ceased emailing us.

Today my girlfriend received a phone call from one of our joint tenants saying she was sending over a 'deed of assignment' and that basically if we didn't sign it they would 'go down the legal route'.

Could anyone advise us where we stand on this? If we were to entertain the idea of signing this deed it would be prudent to have it looked at by a solicitor, which would be more expense on our part. I understand they don't want to be responsible for the property anymore but ultimately they should have looked into all this before giving notice to vacate and committing to another property. I don't appreciate being made to jump through hoops and being threatened with legal action when we haven't actually don't anything wrong. Ultimately what could they do if we refused to sign the deed?

Any advice would be greatly received!

aneary

I'm not a solicitor but they are still tied into the original contract they are asking you to remove their responsibility from the original contract I'll tell them to stuff it.

TBagpuss

I'm not sure they can do anything.
If you have a joint tenancy then it can be varied if all parties to it agree, and it can (usually) be terminated by one of the joint tenants giving notice, so if your tenancy was on a rolling month by month basis, the departing tenants might be able to give effective notice, but if you have a fixed term then as far as I understand it, it can only be ended if you break the terms and the landlord evicts you.

It might be worth you deciding what you would agree to - if you would be happy to have a new fixed term tenancy for 4 1/2 months ending in November,then I don't see why you could go back o them and say that if they can get the landlord to agree to that, and if they cover all the costs, you'd be happy to cooperate.

mrginge

Bohbadonde wrote: »

Ultimately what could they do if we refused to sign the deed?

Nothing. Tell them to jog on and not contact you again.

saajan_12

The LL / agent / other tenants can’t alter the agreement without the consent of all parties. So, if you are within a fixed term and meet all of the tenant obligations, you are safe until the end of the fixed term atleast. Note this includes paying the full rent, so if the other tenants stop paying, you would have to cover it to avoid a Section 8 notice and chase the other tenants for it later based on your (verbal) agreement to split the rent.

However, any individual may give notice if you are in a periodic tenancy or according to a break clause if any – in this case the other tenants’ notice applies to all of you and if you overstay, you would be (jointly) liable for double rent.

A deed of assignment is effectively the same as all parties mutually agreeing to terminate the current agreement and for you to sign a new agreement with the same terms / end date as the current agreement. You would be then covering the full rent between you and your partner – if you’re happy with this then as long as you agree any charges the agent has and what to do with the deposit, you can use whichever method (deed or new agreement) you prefer.

Bohbadonde

if you would be happy to have a new fixed term tenancy for 4 1/2 months ending in November,then I don't see why you could go back o them and say that if they can get the landlord to agree to that, and if they cover all the costs, you'd be happy to cooperate.

The landlord has already ruled out the possibility of this unfortunatley...they have no issues keeping the current agreement in place though.

G_M

Just to confirm:
* this is England/Wales?
* your current joint tenancy is a fixed term ending in November?
* rent etc is up to date?
* you are willing, and able, if required, to pay the full tenancy rent up to November without the other couple contributing?

Your options:
* Agree to a Deed of Assignment. This means the current tenancy continues as it is and ends as before in November. The only change is that you take on the liabilities of the other couple in full.
- you don't have to agree this. To be legal, all 4 tenants, + the landlord/agnt, must sign, with witnesses
- it provides a clean break, which may have advantages
- there may be a cost, but you could insist the other couple pay
- you could also ask the other couple to pay you something in return for your agreement eg £x00 compensation for a) the hassle and/or b) the additional finanancial risk you are taking on

* do nothing. There is no other 'legal route' the couple can take. They signed a contract and are bound by it until either it ends (nov) or the LL agrees to end it early, which requires your agreement too

* Ask the LL/agent to replace the existing tenancy with a brand new short one, in your (2) joint names, ending in November. There is no law that says tenancies must be 12, or 6, months long. They can be any length the parties agree

Whatever you do, don't commit to a new tenancy longer than you want, unless it includes a Break Clause at a point you are happy with.

Bohbadonde

Really appreciate everyone's input.

Just had a thought though- they want be absolved of any responsibility with regards to the property. So the day they left, the lettings agent came and inspected their bedroom and bathroom only. This seems pretty ridiculous. Come November, if there are any issues the agent has regarding the condition of the flat, it seems only right that they are responsible also as they lived here for 8 out of the 12 months...in that time they obviously made use of the kitchen and communal areas, and could have potentially damaged something that at the end of the tenancy the LA wants to charge us for.

If roles were reversed and we were the ones leaving, it would be like us leaving at the 11th month and insisting we were only responsible for the condition of our bedroom and bathroom!

G_M

That inspection carries no legal weight and can be ignored.

The state of the property mid-tenancy is irrelevant, whether 1 room, 2 or the entire property. What matters is the state of the property when the tenancy ends.

Now, IF you sign a Deed of Assignment, that Deed may also have a clause saying that the assignees (you) agree that the condition of the property is satisfaction as of the date of the Deed and that the assignors (departing tenants) have no further responsibiliy for damage, bills, rent etc.

FBaby

We confirmed with the lettings agent that we could pay their share of the rent and bills until the end of the current term.

Why did you confirm this? Did they ask you on the belief then that you would take the full ast until the end of the term, in which case, why didn't you say that that you were not doing so and therefore whether you could pay or not was irrelevant.

Or is it because you indeed agree with your other couple to cover their rent until the end as some kind of agreement. if so, why?

Bohbadonde

FBaby wrote: »

Why did you confirm this? Did they ask you on the belief then that you would take the full ast until the end of the term, in which case, why didn't you say that that you were not doing so and therefore whether you could pay or not was irrelevant.

Or is it because you indeed agree with your other couple to cover their rent until the end as some kind of agreement. if so, why?

We are required by the tenancy agreement to pay for the rent and bills in their entirety if other tenants leave. We could also have taken in other tenants, but after the difficulties we've had with the last two, we didn't want to go down this route. The way we see it is we can manage for 4 months and then the tenancy agreement is up and we can leave.

The real dispute now is that the other tenants want to cut all ties from the contract, which is unfair because if we are charged for anything in November, they should be jointly responsible as they have lived here for 8 months.