Renting: Fusebox needs replaced

JJM26

Hi,

Hope this is the right forum.

I live in a rented property and have done so for 5 years. The landlord has BG Homecare cover for all appliances. We have had BG out 3 times in 2 months, each for different things, but each engineer has left a Safety Concern Notice stating that the Fusebox has "gaps" and needs replacing urgently.

I flagged to the LL, who got another, non BG (friend) to look at it. At the time, that engineer said, "I can see what needs done, I'll speak to the LL for you".

I then get a text the next day from LL saying that

"The electrician came back and said this about the fuse box.

"It doesn't comply with the current regulations but it complies to the regulations when it was installed. The regulations are not retrospective.

All circuits are protected by the appropriate safety device."

I then asked him if it was safe and he said yes"

I'm not comfortable having a fusebox which has gaps covered by electrical tape (fitted by first BG engineer). I have 3 concern notices and nothing certifying it's safe.

Where do I stand?

Thanks in advance.

Cakeguts

I believe that if something is not safe to use the BG electrician would have told you not to use it under any circumstances. They didn't do that? A lot of houses have fuseboxes that don't meet current regulations but that doesn't mean that they are a danger.

00ec25

British Gas is notorious for incentivising their engineers to "recommend" work which is unnecessary because the installation "does not meet current standards". The "engineer" gets commission for everything he then sells to "fix" the problem.

the quote from the other electrician is a perfectly reasonable and normal response you'd get from anyone other than a BG "engineer".

G_M

JJM26 wrote: »

"It doesn't comply with the current regulations but it complies to the regulations when it was installed. The regulations are not retrospective.

All circuits are protected by the appropriate safety device."

.......

I'm not comfortable having a fusebox which has gaps covered by electrical tape (fitted by first BG engineer). I have 3 concern notices and nothing certifying it's safe.

Where do I stand?

1) this is very common. The only properties in the country that comply with 'the current regulations' are newly built properties, since the regulations change regularly. Older properties do not have to be, or need to be, updated each time the regulations change. This applies to the electrics, the levels of insulation, the depth of steps on the stairs and every other aspect of construction.

My house is 150 years old. In those days, foundations were not dug very deep, and my foundations certainly don't comply with 'the current regulations' but I have no intention of knocking my house down, deepening the foundations, and then rebuilding.

2) all aspects of construction, including electrics, must comply with the regulations in force at the time of construction (or installation).

3) British Gas have a reputation for trying to get additional work. Their engineers are paid commission for extra work they 'sell'. Non-compliance with 'the current regulations' is a common tactic to persuade/scare customers into unecessary work.

4) if the circuits are protected by an appropriate safety device (a trip switch/circuit breaker), then the electric are safe

5) it is not unusual fo a Consumer Unit to have 'blanks' Some properties need more circuits than others eg dedicated circuits for electric stove, or immersion heater or external lighting). The blanks are there so that these can be wired into the Consumer Unit if needed. Putting electric tape over these harmless blanks (there's no electricity passing through!) does no harm, but also adds little protection.

6) the landlord has a duty to ensure the electrics are safe. He's had an inspection done (though you don't say whether this was a qualified electrician - did you check?) and been told it's safe.

7) where do you stand? You could try insisting on a new Consumer Unit. I suspect the LL will continue to refuse. You may eventually receive a S21 Notice. But personally I think you are worrying unecessarily.

However please note I'm not an electrician. I'm relying on my experience of owning/updating properties, and on knowledge gained from this forum over the years.

Davesnave

So there are gaps in the housing covered by plastic electrical tape when there would normally be a blank made of plastic, or perhaps, metal. It's not ideal, but in itself it shouldn't be dangerous.

This doesn't seem like a big deal to me, but there is no context.

For example, a meter high up on a wall or inside a lockable cupboard would be safe from inqisitive children, whereas one in the open at 0.5m wouldn't.
There again, you only refer to 'I' so there may be no children or mentally impaired adults to worry about.

SerialRenter

My recommendation would be not to stick your fingers into the gaps.

The lack of blanks won't affect the operation of the fuseboard/consumer unit, unless you have mice or snakes in your house, which have a bad habit of crawling into electrical boxes and getting turned into kebab.

EachPenny

G_M wrote: »

5) it is not unusual fo a Consumer Unit to have 'blanks' Some properties need more circuits than others eg dedicated circuits for electric stove, or immersion heater or external lighting). The blanks are there so that these can be wired into the Consumer Unit if needed. Putting electric tape over these harmless blanks (there's no electricity passing through!) does no harm, but also adds little protection.

SerialRenter wrote: »

My recommendation would be not to stick your fingers into the gaps.

The lack of blanks won't affect the operation of the fuseboard/consumer unit, unless you have mice or snakes in your house, which have a bad habit of crawling into electrical boxes and getting turned into kebab.

Just behind the front panel of a consumer unit is a row of electrical connectors (for want of a better word) known as a 'busbar'. When the consumer unit main switch is on this busbar is live.

If there is no covering to a 'blank' position, the hole allows you to put a finger inside the CU very near to the busbar. If the CU is a spilt-load type then part of the busbar may not be protected by a trip, in which case if you touch that part of the busbar then the only thing now protecting you from becoming a 'kebab' yourself will be the main supply fuse which could be something like an 80A rating. Using a human body to blow an 80A fuse is likely to have only one outcome, it won't be pleasant.

The blank positions on a CU should be filled with a rigid plastic plate - they cost a matter of pence each. Most CU's come supplied with spares, and a competent electrician will not only know why the blanks are necessary, but is likely to have dozens in their van collected from previous jobs. Sticking a bit of tape over the hole doesn't provide the necessary level of protection and is a bodge.

The tape can fall off, inquisitive fingers can pull it off, and if your lights go out and you are groping around in the dark to find a trip by touch it is very easy to put your finger into the hole regardless of the tape.

The question is - if the electrician who last worked on the CU felt it was ok to save a few pence on blanking plates by using electrical tape instead, then what other shortcuts did they feel were ok?

The holes/electrical tape are a concern themselves, but more importantly they are a sign that other things may be wrong.

SerialRenter's advice not to stick your fingers into the gaps is very good advice :eek:

P.s. If the fault with the OP's 'fusebox' is missing blanking plates then it doesn't need a new consumer unit, it just needs someone to fit the correct blanking plates.

SerialRenter

I agree entirely with what EachPenny has said, and perhaps i should have gone into more detail with my post and said that yes, it is dangerous, even if its not going to spontaneously combust, there are other risks as outlined in EachPennys post.
The landlord does have a legal obligation to ensure that the rented property is safe when tenants move in and maintained in a safe condition throughout its duration.

I wouldn't worry about the non compliance with the latest reg's as the vast majority of consumer units now fall into that category as they're required to be metal now. So i would ask the landlord for the unit to be made safe with something other than electrical tape, or replaced if thats not possible.

TBagpuss

another option would of course be to get your own electrician to inspect and tell you whether there are safety issues. You can tell them what the landlord has told you and ask them to comment. It does depend a little how concerned you are.

I's suggest you follow SerialRenter's advice first about having the unit made safe, but if they don't budge, then for your own peace of mind consider getting someone else to look and to give you specific advice about safety and about what needs to be done.