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Joint Mortgage and Estate

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Hi all,

Looking for a little bit of direction. My mother in law has recently died, and we are getting around to dealing with her estate.

It seems a bit overwhelming, and have lots of questions. My wife is going to apply to be an administrator (we don't believe there is a will).

Working out the value of the estate is going to be a little difficult, partly because we live a few hours away and don't have any documentation yet.

We believe she has little assets :

A small life insurance policy, around 9k.
Possessions and some jewelry probably of little value.
A pension, we believe she has death in service benefit, but we don't yet know the value.
We don't know the value of any bank accounts/savings but expect there won't be anything of significance.

She has some debt, up to now we only know of a CCJ of around 16k. We don't know the detail but it may be secured in some way on a property she was jointly on the mortgage of.

She lived in rented accommodation, and had fairly recently split with her partner (not married) . He still lives in the property and is jointly on the mortgage.

I have read that the mortgage debt (and or any equity in the home) will pass to him, and not be part of the estate?

We don't know if their is a separate life insurance policy covering the mortgage, and we don't think if there was, her ex partner would be forthcoming. All we can do is ask him, and if he says no , are we expected to, or can we do any further investigation? I believe this would form part of her estate?

Regarding the CCJ, does that form as a debt in her estate?

Thanks for your help!
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Comments

  • Yorkshireman99
    Yorkshireman99 Posts: 5,470 Forumite
    droiderm wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Looking for a little bit of direction. My mother in law has recently died, and we are getting around to dealing with her estate.

    It seems a bit overwhelming, and have lots of questions. My wife is going to apply to be an administrator (we don't believe there is a will).

    Working out the value of the estate is going to be a little difficult, partly because we live a few hours away and don't have any documentation yet.

    We believe she has little assets :

    A small life insurance policy, around 9k.
    Possessions and some jewelry probably of little value.
    A pension, we believe she has death in service benefit, but we don't yet know the value.
    We don't know the value of any bank accounts/savings but expect there won't be anything of significance.

    She has some debt, up to now we only know of a CCJ of around 16k. We don't know the detail but it may be secured in some way on a property she was jointly on the mortgage of.

    She lived in rented accommodation, and had fairly recently split with her partner (not married) . He still lives in the property and is jointly on the mortgage.

    I have read that the mortgage debt (and or any equity in the home) will pass to him, and not be part of the estate?

    We don't know if their is a separate life insurance policy covering the mortgage, and we don't think if there was, her ex partner would be forthcoming. All we can do is ask him, and if he says no , are we expected to, or can we do any further investigation? I believe this would form part of her estate?

    Regarding the CCJ, does that form as a debt in her estate?

    Thanks for your help!
    The assets such as jewelry do form part of the estate albeit a small amount. If there is no will and the deceased was unmarried the estate goes to the children. The death in service benefit may go to whoever was nominated and probably does not form part of the estate. You will have to check who benefits from the life assurance policy. You will need to find out how the property is held i.e. joint tenants or tenants in common to establish how much forms part of the estate. The CCJ will be a debt payable from the estate. Like it or not the former partner is going to have to cooperate. He and the MIL will almost certainly be jointly and severaly respponsible for the mortgage. The property may have to be sold. Read the stickies on this thread and try to be calm and organised. Plenty of help here if needed,
  • droiderm
    droiderm Posts: 778 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    Thanks for your help.

    We are trying to speak and get the information on the life insurance policy and the death in service. We are hoping to get more information tomorrow.

    I assume they are joint tenants as they were living together for 15 is years in the property. I guess we have to ask her ex for the mortgage company and inform them ? Or is it his reponsibility to inform them ?

    I don't think there is much equity in the property , probably not much more than the value of the ccj. The property is going to be the most difficult part. When you say some of the property may belong to the estate , do you mean as a debt or asset ? What happens in either circumstance , and who and when will be responsible for selling the property ?

    Is it better to get a solicitor involved ? Thanks again
  • Kynthia
    Kynthia Posts: 5,692 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Death in service is paid if you're still working for the employer when you pass away. It's paid to whoever the employee listed in a 'expression of wishes form' outside of the estate. However the trustees have the power to change the beneficiary if there's evidence that the expression of wishes no longer reflects what the employee would have wanted. So if it names the ex-partner it could be worth challenging this.

    You can download from the land registry whether the property is joint tenants or tenants in common.
    Don't listen to me, I'm no expert!
  • droiderm
    droiderm Posts: 778 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    Just downloaded the title from the LR.
    They are both named in the proprietorship section on the same line. I assume that means they are joint tenants ?
  • Yorkshireman99
    Yorkshireman99 Posts: 5,470 Forumite
    Assume nothing! Give the LR a call and ask them to confirm which it is.
  • Yorkshireman99
    Yorkshireman99 Posts: 5,470 Forumite
    edited 4 July 2017 at 12:31PM
    droiderm wrote: »
    Thanks for your help.

    We are trying to speak and get the information on the life insurance policy and the death in service. We are hoping to get more information tomorrow.

    I assume they are joint tenants as they were living together for 15 is years in the property. I guess we have to ask her ex for the mortgage company and inform them ? Or is it his reponsibility to inform them ?

    I don't think there is much equity in the property , probably not much more than the value of the ccj. The property is going to be the most difficult part. When you say some of the property may belong to the estate , do you mean as a debt or asset ? What happens in either circumstance , and who and when will be responsible for selling the property ?

    Is it better to get a solicitor involved ? Thanks again
    The property is going probably going to form part of the state as an asset and debt for the loans charged to it.
  • droiderm
    droiderm Posts: 778 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    Collected together some paper work , although still fuzzy on the process.
    She had an ex common law partner, and a boyfriend (they didn't live together although did plan to, and has since moved in to her property).

    I am assuming neither are classed as a spouse for these purposes?

    We have discovered there is a will, it's held at a solicitor, and they are currently the executor. We have no idea who the beneficiaries are, although it is from 20 years ago and hasn't been updated.

    Death in Benefit - apparently will go to "next of kin". I am assuming that will be her children, and will NOT be part of her estate?

    Life insurance - they asked if there was a will, or a surviving spouse. As there is a will, I assume that WILL go to her estate?

    There is the CCJ, the mortgage, around 40k equity apparently, and the CCJ is about 15k. I assume that will somehow come from her part of the equity?

    There is at least one other 5k debt.

    It seems her estate may be insolvent, if the death in service and life insurance doesn't go into her estate?

    If that's the case, is it still advisable to become the executor? The solicitor are happy to get it changed. Either way, who pays for the solicitor costs, assuming it's insolvent?

    Sorry for all the questions, but it seems quite complicated although we have more facts to gather.
  • TonyMMM
    TonyMMM Posts: 3,423 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    There is no such thing as a "common law" wife or husband in England/Wales so neither of the partners are spouses.

    If the will exists and hasn't been superseded by a more recent one, then it stands.

    Solicitors costs would come out of the estate before the remainder is distributed - if the estate may be insolvent the solicitor will be very keen to pass on the responsibility. I would think very carefully before getting involved in this at all.
  • securityguy
    securityguy Posts: 2,464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    "My wife is going to apply to be an administrator"

    Why? It sounds like the estate is either insolvent or as near as, and there are going to be extensive complications. Before getting involved at all, your wife should consider whether she actually has any reason to. Unless there is more money in the estate than you imply, the cold-blooded rational advice would be to walk away.
  • Yorkshireman99
    Yorkshireman99 Posts: 5,470 Forumite
    droiderm wrote: »
    Collected together some paper work , although still fuzzy on the process.
    She had an ex common law partner, and a boyfriend (they didn't live together although did plan to, and has since moved in to her property).

    I am assuming neither are classed as a spouse for these purposes?

    We have discovered there is a will, it's held at a solicitor, and they are currently the executor. We have no idea who the beneficiaries are, although it is from 20 years ago and hasn't been updated.

    Death in Benefit - apparently will go to "next of kin". I am assuming that will be her children, and will NOT be part of her estate?

    Life insurance - they asked if there was a will, or a surviving spouse. As there is a will, I assume that WILL go to her estate?

    There is the CCJ, the mortgage, around 40k equity apparently, and the CCJ is about 15k. I assume that will somehow come from her part of the equity?

    There is at least one other 5k debt.

    It seems her estate may be insolvent, if the death in service and life insurance doesn't go into her estate?

    If that's the case, is it still advisable to become the executor? The solicitor are happy to get it changed. Either way, who pays for the solicitor costs, assuming it's insolvent?

    Sorry for all the questions, but it seems quite complicated although we have more facts to gather.
    I repeat. Assume nothing! Dealing with an insolvent estate is a very bad idea. You need to be very careful that you don't end up beeing deemed to have "intermeddled" in the estate. You need to check what will happen to the funds. If the estate is insolvent don't do anything. Whoever engged the solicitor is likely to be laible to pay their bill.
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