Civil Enforcement (CEL) Defence - Help please

beamerguy

Peperlini wrote: »

Great news! - I’ve just confirmed with the court and CEL have sent a discontinuance notice and the hearing has been vacated -hooray it’s over at last!

However I am inclined to write to the court asking them to award me costs as the claim was unreasonable and vexatious and I know others on here have been successful.

Thanks a million once again to @Loadsofchildren123 and everyone else on here for the help, advice and continued support!!! I couldn’t have done it without you
:j
:T
:beer:

WELL DONE :T

CEL still up to their rubbish tricks, it's about time the courts
did something about CEL as they are a waste of space

Peperlini

I’ve decided to try and claim costs from CEL to teach them a bit of a lesson :rotfl:

@Loadsofchildren123 - I have tried to doctor one of your previous Gladstones ones and have saved it here for review: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gr534iu1h1e9oor/COSTS%20APPLICATION.docx?dl=0

Couple of questions though:
1. Should I also include a cover letter to request that the court deals with this on paper without the need for a hearing.
2. Can I just email this document (and cover letter if applicable) to the county court and if so, do I need to address it to the judge or just sir/madam or the Court manager?

As always I am ever grateful for the wonderful advice on this forum:):)

Peperlini

And if I am successful with the costs I will be sending you a present @Loadsofchildren123
:beer:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/member.php?u=2270251

Lamilad

By all means send the email and I wish you the best of luck with it, but I've yet to see an informal request for costs succeed. The response from the court, as far as I am aware, is always the same - that a proper application for a costs hearing should be made, and the relevant fee paid.

I say this, not to dampen your enthusiasm, but to manage your expectations.

It's a brilliant letter (as always) from LOC and as strong an argument as anyone could make for costs without a hearing.

Hope it works!

Loadsofchildren123

Can you check that document carefully - eg one para (15?) refers to solicitors (there are none here) and you need to check the para reference at 17 as I’m not sure that’s right.

Your costs schedule should be more detailed. Check my post on Sassii’s thread (I think this is linked via the newbies thread) and I also posted about this today on another thread. The more you break it down, the more chance you’ll get costs. You’re entitled to costs in relation to reading all their docs, not just preparing your defence.
I’ll refer you to the primary case law on 27.14(2)(g) costs tomorrow. Give me a nudge if I forget.

Loadsofchildren123

https://kerryunderwood.wordpress.com/2017/05/23/small-claims-unreasonableness-and-costs/


http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/269.html


https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/legal-updates/civil-procedure-unreasonable-conduct-and-costs/5061032.article


https://keoghs.co.uk/keoghs-insight/aware/costs-orders-for-unreasonable-behaviour-in-small-claims


some light reading for you! If you are going to seek costs, have a read of these. Judges generally don't like awarding costs under 27.14(2)(g), and if you can throw some law at them you will have a better chance.

Peperlini

Thanks again @Loadsofchildren123

Interesting reading, especially the last article which states:
‘The likelihood of successfully persuading a court to award costs depends upon the facts of each case. However, a court may consider that a party has acted unreasonably in the following situations:

Pursuing a claim or defence without any real prospect of success;
A failure to provide adequate supporting documentation;
Exaggeration of a claim or dishonesty;’

I think CEL certainly tick all of those boxes!

I have redrafted my costs application letter using all the other letters I could find (including @bluetoffee1878) and have detailed my costs schedule more thoroughly as suggested.

I would be ever so grateful if you could take a look and let me know what you think:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6upf4ibb43qf0q/DEFENDANT%E2%80%99S%C2%A0COSTS%20APPLICATION%20REF%20CLAIM%20XXXXX.docx?dl=0

Loadsofchildren123

Interesting reading, especially the last article which states:
‘The likelihood of successfully persuading a court to award costs depends upon the facts of each case. However, a court may consider that a party has acted unreasonably in the following situations:

Pursuing a claim or defence without any real prospect of success;
A failure to provide adequate supporting documentation;
Exaggeration of a claim or dishonesty;’


I gave you links to these because, historically, lots and lots of DJs have refused costs orders even when it can be shown that the claim had no prospect of a success. The more info you can produce to persuade a judge of the basis for these costs orders, the more likely you are to get one. So I would read it all carefully, print out copies and make a structured argument. To make your chances better, I would produce a Skeleton solely in relation to costs which brings together the facts and the law - all you have to do then is hand it up and take the judge through it.


here's one I prepared earlier which you might use as a starting point, although it doesn't go into the ins and outs of R27 costs and that case law and if I were drafting this now I would certainly summarise the law set out in that new case and tie it in to all the examples of unreasonable behaviour.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4cn1tbjiim1ycsl/COSTS%20APPLICATION%20updated.docx?dl=0


You have 2 reasons to seek costs:
under the pre-action obligations (para 16 of the PD) - and my note quotes the relevant case law - this says that even a successful party can have costs awarded against them if they have ignored the pre-action obligations
under Rule 27 - add the relevant case law to beef this part up

Loadsofchildren123

Sorry, I've just read back and realised you are writing in for costs, not appearing at a hearing. So my post above is a bit of a nonsense, although you need to take what I said into account in amending your letter in which you see costs.


You could even do it as a Skeleton Argument on costs, and send it in with a brief letter saying


Dear Sirs,


Further to the Claimant's discontinuance of the Claim, I would like to seek a costs order pursuant to Rule 38.5(3). I make my application based on the Claimant's unreasonable behaviour, as provided for in Rule 27.14(2)(g) and based on its failure to comply with its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct.


I enclose a Skeleton Argument which sets out all of the factual matters and case law on which I rely in making this application, together with a schedule of my costs.


I would ask that this matter is dealt with on the papers [or ask for a hearing - the advantage of that is that they probably won't turn up, so personally I'd ask for a hearing].
Then end with "I confirm that I have sent a copy of this letter to the Claimant"


If you want to bypass all of this and avoid an argument, you could make a without prejudice offer that they pay you £x. But then you wouldn't have your fun of slamming them in court.


My feeling is ask for a hearing and hope they don't turn up, or that they offer you something. But that's easy for me to say because I'm not the one having to take a day off work and attend court (worst thing that can happen is you don't get costs).


Include in your costs schedule time for attending court (in the event of a costs hearing) and all the time you are spending on the costs application itself. But I think divide up the time clearly between the main proceedings, and the costs issue.

Peperlini

@Loadsofchildren123 Thanks for all the advice, I've really tried to digest all of the information and links that you kindly provided, however I am feeling pretty out of my depth now and not prepared to face the prospect of a costs hearing. To be honest, I was so relieved that they discontinued and that I don't have to go to court - I know I am being pathetic but was losing a lot of sleep over it.

Anyway, I like the idea of a simple letter such as @bluetoffee1878 's or making a 'without predudice offer' as you suggested in order to bypass all this but I'm not sure how to go about that - would I just write a letter to Civil enforcement giving them the opportunity to send me a cheque for a lesser amount before submitting the full costs schedule to the court?