Auction item turns out to be fake

Wookey

Gibson will usually do a limited run reissue of a particular year rather than a "repro", which come with validation cert, all new Gibson serial numbers can be checked on there website, its only pre 1970's models iirc that are a bit vague with numbering. It is as far as i know illegal to sell counterfeit goods in the states and this is likely the avenue you would need to pursue, an auctioneer should be doing the proper provenance with regard to something that is very heavily counterfeited.

k3lvc

heeddaball wrote: »

I disagree a repro is not a fake

So what's the legal difference you're going to rely on then ?

Wookey

From a USA consumer rights website (consumer reports)

Contact the authorities. File a complaint with your state consumer officials. You can find a list at USA.gov. Selling fake items might violate state statutes on unfair trade practices and federal criminal laws barring the trafficking of counterfeit products. For major fraud, contact your local law enforcement.

heeddaball

I'm in the UK but am encouraged to take action. Thanks Wookey

Wookey

k3lvc wrote: »

So what's the legal difference you're going to rely on then ?

His legal standpoint would be that the item is claimed to be a protected brand when it turns out that it is not, the selling of something that is counterfeited but copyright branded is illegal in most countries whether new or secondhand, no different than a Rolex or a Guicci handbag.

wesleyad

If I understand correctly the OP is trying to say this (made up numbers):

Originally Gibson made guitar in 1950 (probably worth mega money)

Then they reissue it in 2010. Still made by them. This is a reproduction. Still worth good money.

Lad in China makes copy in 2015. This is a fake. Worth peanuts.

OP thought he was buying a reproduction model made by Gibson but got chinese copy. I would say he has a case assuming the wording reproduction is used regularly in this context.

heeddaball

wesleyad wrote: »

If I understand correctly the OP is trying to say this (made up numbers):

Originally Gibson made guitar in 1950 (probably worth mega money)

Then they reissue it in 2010. Still made by them. This is a reproduction. Still worth good money.

Lad in China makes copy in 2015. This is a fake. Worth peanuts.

OP thought he was buying a reproduction model made by Gibson but got chinese copy. I would say he has a case assuming the wording reproduction is used regularly in this context.

Thats exactly it. I've now completed discussions with the auctioneer and basically he's saying he won't refund anything - so I'm going to try section 75

shaun_from_Africa

k3lvc wrote: »

what they were offering they'd also decided it wasn't real (or at the very least they had no grounds to spend time/money/energy verifying its authenticity)

In which case, they were committing a criminal offence by advertising and selling it.
Irrespective of not having the time/money/energy, the auctioneers listed it and they are ones breaking the law.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/26/part/III/crossheading/offences

92 Unauthorised use of trade mark, &c. in relation to goods.
(1) A person commits an offence who with a view to gain for himself or another, or with intent to cause loss to another, and without the consent of the proprietor—
(a) applies to goods or their packaging a sign identical to, or likely to be mistaken for, a registered trade mark, or
(b) sells or lets for hire, offers or exposes for sale or hire or distributes goods which bear, or the packaging of which bears, such a sign, or
(c) has in his possession, custody or control in the course of a business any such goods with a view to the doing of anything, by himself or another, which would be an offence under paragraph (b)

hollydays

It might be worth going back to look at auction archives to see if they've sold these before there.

TonyMMM

There are a lot of these about, there was one in our local auction house recently, but listed as Gibson "style" and only estimated at about £100 - the three screws in the truss rod cover is a warning sign - genuine Gibson's usually only have two.