Public Sector Pay Restraint Ending?

GreatApe

Windofchange wrote: »

Stopping in for lunch after an epic game of rugby and I see that he still doesn't get it.

There
is
a
shortage
of
40,00
nurses

There
is
a
1%
pay cap

How
does
supply
and
demand
come
into
setting
salary?

Of out again to see the killers in hyde park - that gives you a whole 24 hours to still not get it and post some more nonsense on here. Have at it.

40,000 vacancies does not tell us if there is a shortage or not

Also the demand side is not the number of patients or the number of operations etc that need to be done. The demand side is how much we are willing to spend on healthcare. The supply side is how much healthcare that given budget can provide.

We can argue how much the NHS should be funded by, but whatever the number it is a finite number. With this finite budget you would want to pay nurses as little as possible so as to be able to hire as many nurses as possible.

Anyway

There were 18,432 more NHS nurses in 2014 compared to ten years earlier. The number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period.

There were 32,467 additional doctors employed in the NHS in 2014 compared to 2004. The number has increased by an annual average of 2.5 per cent over that time.

There were 5,729 more GPs and 1,688 more practice nurses employed by GPs in 2014 than ten years earlier

There were 12,432 more qualified allied health professionals in 2014 compared to 2004

Since 2004 the number of professionally qualified clinical staff within the NHS has risen by 12.7 per cent. This rise includes an increase in doctors of 27.6 per cent; a rise in the number of nurses of 5.1 per cent; and 8.1 per cent more qualified ambulance staff.

Medical school intake rose from 3,749 in 1997/98 to 6,262 in 2012/13 - a rise of 67.0 per cent.

How are the numbers of nurses and doctors increasing yoy if so many are supposedly leaving?

GreatApe

http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs

That has data for 2017 and it does not paint a negative picture, it seems nurse numbers are up not down and so too are most NHS staff from ambulance crew to doctors all up.

As I keep saying things are not as bad as the media and corbyns mates would have you believe

sevenhills

Windofchange wrote: »

How does supply and demand
come into setting salary?

It doesnt, in the whole public sector, perhaps that will cause problems?

Thrugelmir

GreatApe wrote: »

As I keep saying things are not as bad as the media and corbyns mates would have you believe

Well they aren't actually running the organisation. More a case of using the organisation as a political football to further their own cause. People are living longer. Requiring more treatment in the process. Somehow a balance has to be struck. As to what is free and what isn't.

economic

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Well they aren't actually running the organisation. More a case of using the organisation as a political football to further their own cause. People are living longer. Requiring more treatment in the process. Somehow a balance has to be struck. As to what is free and what isn't.

you keep making pointless points.

Thrugelmir

economic wrote: »

you keep making pointless points.

:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:wall:

Moby

BobQ wrote: »

They already do.

The problem is private prisons don't work at all well!

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

The problem is private prisons don't work at all well!

Quite.
I have noticed over the years that the advocates of outsourcing have become less bothered about service delivery and have concentrated merely on the money saved.

Tromking

Interesting if not surprising expose on the 'debate' within Cabinet on public sector pay. Although the leak is being reported as 5 cabinet ministers trying to undermine Hammond's stance on Brexit,I wonder if it's partly down to a sense of frustration amongst ministers that unless the purse strings are loosened then public services will suffer further. Although Hammond acknowledged the recruitment and retention issues with some roles, the term 'overpaid' is certainly a window on the Tory attitude to public service.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Tromking wrote: »

the leak is being reported as 5 cabinet ministers trying to undermine Hammond's stance on Brexit,

Which is true.

With a healthy dose of also trying to undermine Hammond's leadership chances when the Maybot is finally deactivated.

I wonder if it's partly down to a sense of frustration amongst ministers that unless the purse strings are loosened then public services will suffer further.

Of course not.

This is nothing other than the Brextremists trying to turn the Conservative party into BlueKip.

Although Hammond acknowledged the recruitment and retention issues with some roles, the term 'overpaid' is certainly a window on the Tory attitude to public service.

Hammond correctly pointed out that public service compensation including pensions is 10% higher on average than private sector equivalents. That is a fact.