DIY Conveyancing on New Builds and Engrossment Fees

loads2

Update following completion of all conveyancing activity

davidmcn

loads2 wrote: »

1. Bovis are not prepared to amend (engross) any documentation but still want to charge us an engrossment fee.

"Engrossing" is preparing the final version of the documentation, not any previous amendments. And in practice, builders will usually refuse to negotiate any of their deeds anyway. The fee is really just a subsidy of their legal costs, what you call it is pretty irrelevant.

loads2

Update following completion of all conveyancing activity

Surrey_EA

I think you are wise not to consider using the preferred solicitors of a developer when looking to purchase a property from that developer. Of course it is also your right to carry out the conveyancing yourselves.

However, unless you have extensive knowledge of property law I wonder why you would consider doing this part of the process yourselves. There is far more to conveyancing than simply understanding the searches.

Compared to the likely cost of the property the charge a conveyancing solicitor will charge is relatively small. I have dealt with thousands of property transactions over many years and I would not contemplate carrying out my own conveyancing.

G_M

Presumably you are paying cash (a mortgage lender would insist on a solcitor).

Regular followers of the forum will know I am all in favour of DIY conveyancing (this is a moneysaving site) when the circumstances are right.

In this case I query whether it is.

Your post suggests some understanding of the process, and some areas of less understanding (edited my 1st draft of that!). This, combined with the fact this is a New Build which adds a level of legal complexity, makes me query whether you are wise.

It is, of course, your choice.

I agree 100% with Surrey_EA that you should not, in any case, use the Developer's preferred solicitor.

1. Bovis are not prepared to amend (engross) any documentation but still want to charge us an engrossment fee.
2. Bovis do not like the fact we are representing ourselves, not using the solicitor fraternity and least of all not using Bovis preferred solicitors.

1. It is rare for NB documents to be amended - they are generally standardised throughout a development and the developers solicitors do not tend to tailor them property by property.

The documents will need to be engrossed. Whether the seller pays this legal cost, or passes it on to the buyer, is a matter of their business plan. Like amendments, they tend to have a standard policy which applies to every property they sell - in this case that they pass on that fee to the buyers.

2. Frankly the negative reaction to DIY conveyancing is not limited to Bovis, or New Build developers, but is wider even that that.

I've encountered resistance from solicitors representing clients selling 'old' properties - it's just one of the hurdles faced by all DIY conveyancers.

davidmcn

loads2 wrote: »

If we had decided to use a solicitor that solicitor would have received the same links to all the searches that we did. The only difference being that our solicitor would have [fraudulently] charged us another search fee when all these searches have already been done.

How up to date were those searches? If more than a few months by your completion date, you would have needed to get updated ones anyway (well, not "needed" as you're a cash buyer and take what risks you wish, but normal conveyancing practice would be to get up to date searches).

Not sure where your evidence is for the "fraudulent" bit - any solicitor pocketing funds intended for disbursements would be caught out soon enough.

loads2

All independent recent searches (as stated in my original post).

Solicitors have defrauded people in the past, and justifiably have a bad reputation.

Surrey_EA

loads2 wrote: »

All independent recent searches (as stated in my original post).

Solicitors have defrauded people in the past, and justifiably have a bad reputation.

Bovis' solicitor has even falsified the dates of her correspondence (as stated in my original post).

How recent?

What do you mean by independent?

There are a variety of different searches that can be carried out when purchasing a property. Which ones you obtain will vary depending on exactly where the property is located.

Just because there may have been examples of solicitors defrauding people in the past, I would say that is ridiculously rare, and it strikes me as something of an overreaction to then assume all solicitors are fraudulent.

Surrey_EA

loads2 wrote: »

5. Bovis have also falsified dates. The draft contract (which needs amending owing to the above) was received 1 June. We are allowed 28 days to exchange from date of receipt (1 June). Bovis' letter has been wrongly dated 19 May when it was written some days later and was not received until 1 June. Would any reasonable person want to buy from an organisation that goes about falsifying records?

It is not beyond the realms o possibility that the documentation was dictated by the solicitor on 19.05.17, and then was not typed up for a few days, leading to you not receiving the documents until 01.06.17.

I acknowledge G_M's enthusiasm for DIY conveyancing, and I accept that for someone possessing the level of knowledge they clearly have then DIY conveyancing is a realistic option. However, most people do not. Given the amount of money you're likely to spend on buying a house, not to have professional legal representation with a view to saving money feels like a false economy to me. You may save money on solicitors fees, but at the risk of missing something significant that may be costly in the future.