Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

gfplux

ilovehouses wrote: »

When was the last time you purchased something that wasn't of benefit to you or the seller? It's a win win - you got a benefit and so did the seller.

I assume a simple misunderstanding.
When talking trade in the context of Brexit we surely are talking about trade between Country's.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

The benefit is that we did amazingly well as a direct result of membership. Our country was on a serious decline and it reversed it. They stopped a lot of our self destructive policies. Government using tax revenue to prop up industries etc, polluting rivers and seas, overfishing etc.

If you're an Employee then you've really benefited. I can see why sociopathic Employers have a different view.

No matter what they promise today, I can't see the working time directive surviving. For the very reason that the government has been repeatedly fighting in the EU courts to find loopholes in it. Unfortunately their tactics involve using logic that a five year old come up with.

How old are you?

The UK was in decline for several years after we joined the Common Market and it was only after the election of 1979 that the decline was reversed. Environmental legislation and legislation on workers rights was passed in the UK long before the EU even thought about it. Overfishing didn't really start until the Common Fisheries policy was implemented in 1970 - funnily enough just before Heath dragged us in.

The Working Time directive has been full of loopholes since it was passed. Every employer in every member country exploits them.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

Ironically the EU is strong and stable, trying to do the best for 28 countries. Which I don't think deserves to be called protectionist, which as you rightly say is what we're doing. With any luck the EU is going to continue growing, to the point where all countries are members. We won't like that as we still look fondly on our days of ruling the world, kicking the little guy. But it's what we need.

Other countries have behaved badly as well, but we are the only current EU member that still hold onto the idea of "ruling the waves".

The EU is incredibly protectionist. One example. The tariff on processed cocoa beans from Africa is more than double the rate of raw beans. This greatly benefits German processors to the detriment of workers in Africa. Who's kicking the little guy?

I don't have time to give a full reponse to your uninformed post but I seriously recommend that you do a bit more research.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mayonnaise wrote: »

UK car sales fall for fourth month in a row in July

Now, which is the worst option?
More people buying cars - but increasingly using that nasty PCP or other nasty finance?
Or less people buying a new car?

Some people aren't happy with either.
Go figure.

Herzlos

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Now, which is the worst option?
More people buying cars - but increasingly using that nasty PCP or other nasty finance?
Or less people buying a new car?

1. People need to buy new cars (via some method) for people to be able to buy used cars, later. Every time new car sales tail off, used car prices creep up.

2. Less people buying new cars indicates some reluctance to buy new cars - are we suddenly realising that we can't afford them? Are we holding off to see what happens with next gen electrics? Are we being more careful with money?

It clearly shows people are less willing to spend money for some reason, and I'm not sure even you can spin that as a good thing.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

phillw wrote: »

Yes, you've proved my point. We were on the verge, we had to beg three times to get let in. We then had to get a loan, but as a member of the EU we've turned it round.

Delusional. Our average real terms GDP growth in the 20 years before joining the EU was 3.3%. In the 20 years after it was 2.3%

Eric_the_half_a_bee

Herzlos wrote: »

2. Less people buying new cars indicates some reluctance to buy new cars - are we suddenly realising that we can't afford them? Are we holding off to see what happens with next gen electrics? Are we being more careful with money?

It clearly shows people are less willing to spend money for some reason, and I'm not sure even you can spin that as a good thing.

New car registrations fell every year from 2003 to 2006. What was the economic Armageddon that prompted that?

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

...
It clearly shows people are less willing to spend money for some reason, and I'm not sure even you can spin that as a good thing.

I understand you don't buy new, so maybe you haven't spotted the big changes in duty.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-4352428/The-22-new-cars-hardest-hit-car-tax-changes.html

It was bound to have an impact. I think the changes will affect the second hand market too, in a few years.

phillw

cogito wrote: »

The UK was in decline for several years after we joined the Common Market and it was only after the election of 1979 that the decline was reversed.

I didn't say it instantly reversed, but you'd have to be stupid to think that it would. The same that you would think that brexit would instantly cause the economy to collapse & that because it hadn't then brexit was obviously a good idea.

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

Delusional. Our average real terms GDP growth in the 20 years before joining the EU was 3.3%. In the 20 years after it was 2.3%

Massaging the figures. We joined because the country was in decline.

cogito wrote: »

The EU is incredibly protectionist.

Of 28 countries, which it hopes to increase to as many countries as possible. That has to be morally better than being protectionist of 1 country? Right?

cogito wrote: »

I don't have time to give a full reponse to your uninformed post but I seriously recommend that you do a bit more research.

No, please do give a full response. It will give me something to laugh about. I seriously recommend you change your mind before the cognitive dissonance hits and you go through a mental break down, along with the other 52%.

The problem is we're not arguing over facts, we arguing over what those mean. To the xenophobes everything justifies brexit. To everyone else the same facts justifies being a member of the EU.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

phillw wrote: »

Massaging the figures.

The figures are freely available from the ONS. Please explain in what way they are massaged? By the black art of using simple arithmetic?

We joined because the country was in decline.

And yah boo to the statistics that prove otherwise!