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Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)
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Yes there are also people who will suffer 50 years of "downturn" to deliver a Brexit. Of course by then they will probably be dead and half the nation will have to live with the consequences.
True. I'm pro-EU because I'm pro-UK. I believe that the EU does a lot of good work in assisting those that need help to improve their lives and has overall done a lot of good for the continent.
I therefore don't fit into the category.I have always found the argument that our children will benefit in the long term fatuous as we will never know if the future consequences are because of Brexit or would have happened anyway.
The best way is going to be to see how a basket of EU countries perform compared to the UK then compare that to a basket of non-EU countries, likely to be the US, Canada and Australia.I agree that re-balancing is needed but that was necessary with or without Brexit. The real problem in the future is stopping people living off debt and dealing with our low wage, low productivity economy. Brexit may just make that more difficult to solve.
I agree here too. We are in a world of low interest rates, it's not just the UK. Instead of encouraging additional debt burdens on the population, we should have been encouraging those with debt to use the reduced expenditure to pay it down.
The high house prices aren't because of immigration, they're due to a lack of house building. To get the economy where it is we would have needed to have either the immigration we have or for women to have more children.
Either case would have required more house building than we have had. I believe that the other benefits of being in the EU such as the single market have helped the UK a lot, as did a lot of those who voted Leave now 40 years ago.I agree we all act in our best interests to some extent but I remember a time when selfishness was not as rife as it is today. I cannot recall a time when a majority of a generation voted to do something which another mostly did not want. on a major issue like this.
However that is where the divide lies. Every 5 years that happens in pensioners voting Tory and students/younger workers voting Labour. The point is taken that it's for 5 years and not for 10, 15, 20, maybe longer.
I've been accused by some on here of acting selfishly however IMO I voted in a way that I thought was genuinely best for the country. I'd probably be better off under Tory plans however I refuse outright to vote for them as I do have a conscience, even though I will admit to doing so in 2015 in support of the candidate and a continuation of the coalition, not an outright Conservative win.
Some national issues are generational however some aren't. I can't remember a national issue that has caused so many arguments even within individual families (although mine all voted the same way) and so much mistrust of another side in general though. I also don't remember an issue where I've had to ask not to be abused so often for holding a viewpoint either.💙💛 💔0 -
Aren't you just waving a different flag? Just in this case, a blue one.
After all, we seem comfortable with the Scottish flag and the Union that is the United Kingdom.
No, I'm not waving a flag. I understand the pro's and con's with the EU. I would ditch it in a second if there was a bigger and better alternative.Maybe it's a hope that there is a pragmatic layer underneath the rather dogmatic exterior the EU likes to present.
I think they were rather too rigid when they dealt with Cameron before the Brexit referendum. They could have changed the course of the vote outcome.
The EU is pragmatic, it's the UK that is dogmatic. Blaming the EU for Brexit is like blaming your parents that you don't have a Lambourghini, all they need to do is buy you one. Why do they keep refusing?CKhalvashi wrote: »The best way is going to be to see how a basket of EU countries perform compared to the UK then compare that to a basket of non-EU countries, likely to be the US, Canada and Australia.
No matter which way the result shows then either side will argue that the countries aren't similar enough to do the comparison, because they aren't similar enough to do the comparison. You can't A-B situations likes this, if you could then the referendum wouldn't be needed. There would have been no "project fear" allegations, etc
Voting brexit purely comes down to how you feel about humanity, if you're "them and us" then you voted to leave & if you think everyone is as good or bad as everyone else then you voted to remain. It will also colour how you interpret the next 50 years.0 -
We'll see if that materializes.
Sure. I think we'll go cap in hand to the EU and end up taking the full integration we've been avoiding, because it's the best option we're given. Shengen (if it is still in play), Euro, and without the rebates. Same as any other new member.
4,000 miles of ocean. 5+ hours of time difference. Why would we form a union with a continent on the other side of the world instead of the one we've got direct road access to?
No-ones forgetting it.
The next OFFICIAL round of talks begins on MONDAY 28th August. There has been "talk" about stepping up the frequency of meetings but nothing has been announced.
As it stands the next round will be in the format established before. Meetings Monday to Thursday morning and a press conference after lunch on Thursday.
Whether Davis will have a "pile of papers" in front of him at the photo op on Monday morning or whether he stays in Brussels until Thursday will be interesting to see.There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.0 -
The next OFFICIAL round of talks begins on MONDAY 28th August. There has been "talk" about stepping up the frequency of meetings but nothing has been announced.
As it stands the next round will be in the format established before. Meetings Monday to Thursday morning and a press conference after lunch on Thursday.
Whether Davis will have a "pile of papers" in front of him at the photo op on Monday morning or whether he stays in Brussels until Thursday will be interesting to see.
Working on a British bank holiday? That's mean!EU expat working in London0 -
No, I'm not waving a flag. I understand the pro's and con's with the EU. I would ditch it in a second if there was a bigger and better alternative.
Quelle surprise! There was an interesting article on a German paper a while back about how the Brits always seem to chase the next big sausage! You seem to confirm it.EU expat working in London0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »I fail to see the connection between these and a trade deal. After all we keep getting told trade is mutually beneficial to all parties. Though one suspects some countries (i.e. the French) have other ideas. Not that I blame them. As it's a dog eat dog world when it comes to business.
Where do you get told that trade is mutually beneficial.
Trade has hardly ever been mutually beneficial.
If you are referring to the talking heads they are just trying to sell you something.There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.0 -
always_sunny wrote: »Working on a British bank holiday? That's mean!
I didn't know that. Wow. If the meeting starts on Monday will the Daily Fail accuse the EU of being a bully!There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.0 -
They wanted the border tightened on the way *in* to keep those pesky foreigners out. I'm not sure it occurred to them that borders work in both directions.
This is the cake and eat it delusion. When you decide that we're superior and "they" should do what we want, then it's all too easy to put demands on other people without any regards to the consequences. This kinda of behaviour keeps marriage guidance counsellors in business.always_sunny wrote: »Working on a British bank holiday? That's mean!
David Davis is not a bank. Not everyone thinks "If THEY'RE having a holiday then I'M having a holiday". It's that type of thinking that got us into this mess. A lot of people don't have the choice.TrickyTree83 wrote: »Since within an FTA area you need to be able to check that the products being exported by the member originate from the member, otherwise they become a conduit for products from outside the FTA, this is known as the rules of origin.
Rules of origin is for products imported into the EU, once inside it's irrelevant & is waived through. Making those checks is not quick, the products sit at the EU border while they work out which country it's from. The rules are the same into each EU member are the same, so it doesn't matter where they come in. Of course a country may illegally allow non EU goods in, but if that is found then the EU courts will punish them. The UK is saying that we don't want to be governed by the EU courts.
Therefore there is no movement possible.
http://exporthelp.europa.eu/thdapp/display.htm?page=cd%2Fcd_RulesOfOrigin.html&docType=main&languageId=enTrickyTree83 wrote: »Well blow me, if prior to any negotiations being concluded you already know this answer too, i.e. they won't agree to any deal, why on earth are you not in contact with David Davis and his team explaining what the EU will and will not do to them? I would think that would save the EU and the UK a great deal of time and expense to have you speak to them.
I don't have his mobile number. However the EU have been saying exactly the same thing since before the referendum result, so it's not like it's a huge surprise.TrickyTree83 wrote: »I think you fundamentally misunderstand what an FTA is, specifically around the rules of origin. Sorry.
Sorry, but it is you who misunderstands.
http://exporthelp.europa.eu/thdapp/display.htm?page=cd%2Fcd_RulesOfOrigin.html&docType=main&languageId=enTrickyTree83 wrote: »[I guess I'm not your average leave voting troglodyte/xenophobe/racist/knuckle dragger. I do hate to disappoint.
I'm not convinced, you are throwing around the same misinformation. Hoping to keep momentum long enough that by the time people figure out really what is going to happen, then it's too late.0 -
David Davis is not a bank. Not everyone thinks "If THEY'RE having a holiday then I'M having a holiday". It's that type of thinking that got us into this mess. A lot of people don't have the choice.
True.
My mother will be working because they're still short staffed as the NHS hasn't been getting its promised £350m a week.
So will I as I have a lot to be getting on with at the moment and really need to find a more productive use of my limited time than sitting on MSE between dealing with emails. Such is life though
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